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-   -   *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread *** (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=521596)

BobboFitos 11-28-2007 02:36 AM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
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Monta Ellis is exciting but largely overrated. He isn't very efficient. He definitely shouldn't have won the MIP over Kevin Martin, a true stud.

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I'm gonna unilaterally decide that it's not too late for you to take this back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

absolutely thrilling game. Playoff atmosphere, and somehow for once G state never let the suns get back to even.

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Uhh kevin martin is still miles ahead of monta

PITTM 11-28-2007 12:54 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
completely disagree.

offTopic 11-28-2007 02:07 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Monta Ellis is exciting but largely overrated. He isn't very efficient. He definitely shouldn't have won the MIP over Kevin Martin, a true stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna unilaterally decide that it's not too late for you to take this back [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

absolutely thrilling game. Playoff atmosphere, and somehow for once G state never let the suns get back to even.

[/ QUOTE ]
Uhh kevin martin is still miles ahead of monta

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only seen a couple of Kings games over the last three seasons (just when on TV against the Warriors), so grain of salt, etc, etc, but I don't think it's "miles". Martin is clearly a better shooter from deep and from the line, and aside from that, their "traditional" stats look pretty comparable, and Martin is two years older. Maybe yards ahead? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

kidcolin 11-28-2007 02:25 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
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completely disagree.

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I know you're a homer and that's cute and all, but it's not even close. Martin's a true stud, a go-to guy on a squad that is pretty desperate for offense. Ellis is a nice little guard who seems better than he is playing Nellie-ballstothewall offense, but he's essentially pretty average. Torching Steve Nash does not a star make.

It basically comes down to Martin being a much more efficient scorer (not to mention a much better rebounder as well). He's scoring 8 more ppg in a little over 3 more shots per game. In terms of pts/shot, Monta is pretty good with ~1.24, but Martin is a scorching 1.49.

PITTM 11-28-2007 03:20 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Yeah, i think the "yards ahead" comment is more how i feel. Monta is 2 years younger and I feel like he has way more room for development than k mart. Also, martin currently gets way more minutes than ellis.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 03:44 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
The minutes thing actually favors Martin. Generally, the per minute type stats are biased towards guys playing shorter minutes (David Lee is a prime example). However, Martin performs much better on any sort of per/minute or per/possession stat. Better at everything except assists. Martin's PER: 21 (20 last season)(pretty/very good). Monta's: 15 (same last season) (exactly average). TS%, eFG%, rebound rate, turnover rate.. they all favor Martin.

Put it this way: I doubt Monta is every signing anything like a 5yr/$55M extension like Martin just did. I'd venture to guess that if they got traded straight up, the Kings would have only 1 win so far, and the Warriors wouldn't have started out on that 0-fer stretch.

PITTM 11-28-2007 03:52 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
I didnt know you were using per 48 minutes stats. I didn;t know martin was playing so well. sick.

kidcolin 11-28-2007 04:05 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
Yeah.. I generally think the 5/$55M is a steal. I think that's generally Rip Hamilton money, and though they're similar, I think Martin is a bit better. The back-end of that deal is going to seem pretty cheap in 2010 or whatever.

That being said, Monta's playing much better lately, I'm sure partly because he shoulders less load with S-Jax on the floor. He's a good fit for the Warriors and Nelly ball suits him almost perfectly (he sucks at 3s).

offTopic 11-28-2007 04:08 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
[ QUOTE ]
The minutes thing actually favors Martin. Generally, the per minute type stats are biased towards guys playing shorter minutes (David Lee is a prime example). However, Martin performs much better on any sort of per/minute or per/possession stat. Better at everything except assists. Martin's PER: 21 (20 last season)(pretty/very good). Monta's: 15 (same last season) (exactly average). TS%, eFG%, rebound rate, turnover rate.. they all favor Martin.

Put it this way: I doubt Monta is every signing anything like a 5yr/$55M extension like Martin just did. I'd venture to guess that if they got traded straight up, the Kings would have only 1 win so far, and the Warriors wouldn't have started out on that 0-fer stretch.

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FWIW, I think this is why Nellie desperately(?) wants to convert Monta to PG. He said earlier in the year that as a 2, Monta is just a nice player, but as a 1, he could be a star.

Anyway, hopefully the Ws can turn the Kings over and keep them off the line.

AllinDan 11-28-2007 09:34 PM

Re: *** Official 2007-08 Golden State Warriors Thread ***
 
I didn't really mean to start a Monta vs Martin debate here, I was more focused on the fact that Monta was "overrated" because of a few bad games. Is he now underrated?

That said, Martin may be a better player now, but I'd be surprised if that's still the case in 2 years.

Also, fwiw there was an article in the chronicle today about how Nellie is gonna be ok with Monta being a scorer and not a true pg, because he's obviously pretty damn good at putting the ball in the basket


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