2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Usually I don't play these hands for a raise, but I thought I would since diamonds were live, my straight cards were OK, and it looked to be a multi way pot that maybe it could be a profitable hand. I hated getting jammed on 4th, but I figured since I caught a diamond I had to at least see 5th.

Bad?

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (6.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___raises
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Yeah, just fold 3rd. Small pairs aren't very good in multiway pots, even with the straight flush kicker.

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Hello,

I really don't like the way this hand was played at all.
In a bigger game it would be really atrocious...

Cold calling bets and raises in stud is a sure way to lose your bankroll.

I don't mind you necessarily playing your holding... although I do mind that you didn't try to get the pot heads up or at least shorthanded. a pair of fives in a 5 way pot isn't going to win very much.

Regards,

CJ

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind you necessarily playing your holding... although I do mind that you didn't try to get the pot heads up or at least shorthanded. a pair of fives in a 5 way pot isn't going to win very much.

[/ QUOTE ]Great- thanks for the feedback. I felt like this was pretty gross, but sometimes I try new things and I really have no idea what I'm doing. That's when I post and get feedback from the experts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(I ended up winning an enormous pot, so I posted this in effort to not be results oriented)

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Great to see you posting again, CJ. There are plenty of times you can and should call full bets/raises on third street. Of course that's mostly with drawing hands. Here, I think raising on third is worse than calling. Most of the time, if someone has called $1, he's going to call another $3. I'm not saying it's right--I'm just telling it like it is. So you're building a big, multi-way pot with a crap hand. If this were going to be heads-up, calling or raising would be less terrible, but folding would still be better.

Having called third, I think calling one bet and then the next is OK, but you certainly wouldn't call two bets cold. This is one problem with playing a dog like 554.

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

That's a fold. The hand is simply a money loser on all streets. I can't envision one scenario where a middle position call with that hand is correct. Calling when you're behind is what fish do in stud.

If you're hell bent on playing junk at least reraise it on 3rd to give yourself a better chance of winning the hand.

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

OK, so I was re-reading through 7CS4AP and came across the paragraph that provoked me to call here- it's the first full paragraph on page 45. Here the authors state you can call a raise with a small live pair and straight flush kicker if you anticipate a multiway pot.

So did I missapply the text here in some way?

I'm not hellbent on playing junk; it's just that since my bible tells me these hands can be profitable I'd like to understand how- gaining some experience with them is what I was trying to do here. I'd like to learn how to be a better player and not miss opportunities if hands like this can be profitable multiway, and the only way I'm going to learn is by getting out there and try some stuff. If that means a few misapplications along the way, I'm fine with that (it's only money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ), but I'd like to understand what the author's had in mind for playing these hands if this wasn't it.

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

I think 3rd is a fold because 3,7,a, and 4 are already out there, so two pairs and regular straights are unlikely. i understand the authors state you can play those hands, but do you really want to play it with one diamond already exposed. To me that is like playing 3 diamond hand with 3 diamonds exposed on 3rd street.

It is possible that in a very big 5 way pot drawing to a straight flush is possible, but I wonder if this isnt better applied to hands like 889 that 554?

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Hi Andy....

Nice to be back....

I don't disagree with you about calling with the drawing hands and such....

However...
If i am reading this converter thing correctly ( and we all know i am not an online junky).. hero cold called with the position RIGHT AFTER the initial raiser with a pair of fives. My opinion is if he wanted to play the holding (which may or may not be right) he should have re-raised forcing all the other players to cold call 2 bets. Here he didn't and ended up with a five way pot, because as is standard in low limit games... everyone else called. (as you mentioned)... However in my experience when it gets to 2 bets... many players actually start to think and you may end up with the favorable short handed situation.

If I am going to play a small pair with small kicker I want the situation in one of two ways....

1) Heads -up
2) Everyone (or at the least 6 players) in the pot... (obviously for pot odds)........................
Which again if i am reading this converter thing correctly... hero couldn't have known given his position.

and some people don't think poisition makes a difference in Stud. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Just my 3 cents...

great to chat woth you Andy...

CJ

Re: 2/4 Stud High- 554
 

Hi,

While the diamonds were live... many of your straight cards were gone.. also your kicker card was already shown by a person who called.

straightflush cards are important when all(or most) of the various outs are good, allowing you to back into one of several hands.

In this case(see my comments to Andy), I beleive this hand should have been played as a "shorthanded" holding or folded.


Sincerely,

CJ