Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

Cp 30 game
standard herd of morons with schnieds, bk, and i sitting next to eachother observing the animals in the zoo and dodging their poo flinging

UTG is the top of the top morons. Just sucks in general and plays his hands super wierd. Sometimes he raises with air, sometimes he waits to raise top pair until the river, sometimes he has quads. For what its worth, as i think its important in this hand, i watched him call the turn after spiking an ace (a8 on an 57JA5 board) on the turn then raise the river and pay off a three bet by the button who had quad 5's.

UTG raises, folds to hero in BB who 3 bets A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], UTG calls

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets, UTG calls

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero bets, UTG raises, hero calls

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
hero checks, UTG bets, Hero check raises

I kinda want to hear thoughts on the hand before I share some of mine.. Thanks for the input in advance!

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cp 30 game
standard herd of morons with schnieds, bk, and i sitting next to eachother observing the animals in the zoo and dodging their poo flinging

UTG is the top of the top morons. Just sucks in general and plays his hands super wierd. Sometimes he raises with air, sometimes he waits to raise top pair until the river, sometimes he has quads. For what its worth, as i think its important in this hand, i watched him call the turn after spiking an ace (a8 on an 57JA5 board) on the turn then raise the river and pay off a three bet by the button who had quad 5's.

UTG raises, folds to hero in BB who 3 bets A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], UTG calls

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets, UTG calls

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
hero bets, UTG raises, hero calls

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
hero checks, UTG bets, Hero check raises

I kinda want to hear thoughts on the hand before I share some of mine.. Thanks for the input in advance!

[/ QUOTE ]

i like.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

you finally did it

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

While he plays weird postflop, this doesn't describe his preflop raising range from UTG. Some people will never raise AJ here, and if this is the case, I would much prefer to have AK as opposed to AQ here. And what are we planning if he reraises?? Can we lay this down, or somehow put a 3rd bet into the pot on the river (the fifth bet on large streets with only one pair!).

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

So sexy it hurts.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

Dave you told us everything about villain except his propensity to bet the river with hands that dont contain an ace or with just plain air. With the info you have provided I would be trying to bet/3 here.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

Uh given you got raised on the turn this isn't a sexy. In fact this seems suboptimal to 3 betting the turn because lots of people FSDR all the damn time.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

didnt see he got raised on the turn. Not sure what his turn habits are so I would get to sd.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

that's a ballsy value raise on the river against a guy who may just have 96 here.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

from what i saw he is willingly to do this with 76,86,56,98, Ax
my thought was in two parts. First, if i check and he has air he is going to fire this river 100%. That being said, he most likely has at least a pair in this spot because he seemed like the type to peel/fold when he missed. He will pay me off with every one pair hand. He also is too retarded to 3 bet me with two pair and will just call with two pair hands regardless so I'll never open myself up to being outplayed by him.

haha I get all excited thinking i might be sexy and chris has to call me fat- real nice buddy lol

Mitch- Bet/3balling doesnt work i think because this guy will freeze up to often and just call with an ace and an 8/7 whereas he'll bet/call both if we check to him. Also His opening standards are non existant.

edited to address mitch

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

three betting the turn sounds better to me against this guy

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

[ QUOTE ]
you finally did it

[/ QUOTE ]

this play seems fine against someone who isnt completely retarded... but lets be honest, this guy sounds completely retarded, so just three bet the turn, you dont really have to worry about him folding it sounds like

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

the problem with 3 betting turn is he folds air.... i think its important to pick up his river bluff if he has air--
your are right that we dont need to worry about him folding but thats only if he has a pair

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

meh... air has to make up such a tiny percentage of his range...

what if a 4, 6, or 9 come off on the river? you cant really c/r then (well..), so you are either c/c or donking. could be put in a tough spot.

you run good enough to have the old 2d fall though so thats irrellevent i guess.. :-)

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uh given you got raised on the turn this isn't a sexy. In fact this seems suboptimal to 3 betting the turn because lots of people FSDR all the damn time.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

DD, what about the Spicy F argument that c/r this river better controls the # of bets that go in?

EDIT: It's highly probable I never fully understood Spicy's theory with that line.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

[ QUOTE ]
from what i saw he is willingly to do this with 76,86,56,98, Ax
my thought was in two parts. First, if i check and he has air he is going to fire this river 100%. That being said, he most likely has at least a pair in this spot because he seemed like the type to peel/fold when he missed. He will pay me off with every one pair hand. He also is too retarded to 3 bet me with two pair and will just call with two pair hands regardless so I'll never open myself up to being outplayed by him.

haha I get all excited thinking i might be sexy and chris has to call me fat- real nice buddy lol

Mitch- Bet/3balling doesnt work i think because this guy will freeze up to often and just call with an ace and an 8/7 whereas he'll bet/call both if we check to him. Also His opening standards are non existant.

edited to address mitch

[/ QUOTE ]


I made my post assuming he just called the turn. Were he to do that your original OP made it sound like he would raise top pair alot on the river. If this was this case you get max value out of an ace and ensure underpairs dont check behind. Since we didnt know anything about what he has when he raises the turn I would just call down. Your line is an internet move and its rare to find a live opponent that fits the description enough to warrant this line. If his range contains air as well as huge hands I especially like a call down. Obviously, he will call a river cr with any pair, but I think that since you cannot fold to a 3bet and you dont want the fish to think you are deliberately trying to make him look stupid it is best to play sf.

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

At first thought, I thought it was super sexy, but if he's going to FSDR the turn, it's more meh. I'd probably just trey the turn and be done with it, because if he has an A, I doubt he's folding, and that way, the river won't get checked through if he wusses out on the river or planned on always checking.

However, if he is FSDRing then I like 3-banging more, because he'll fold a hand that probably has a few outs against you, and you gain nothing by letting him see the river, because he's never going to catch to a 2nd best hand, only a better one.

I'm ambivalent. Is that ok? Maybe it's like a 5 beer move that I might hit on after the bar's cleared out a little? In the morning, I might wake up and say "her?" but at the same time, I won't hate myself?

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uh given you got raised on the turn this isn't a sexy. In fact this seems suboptimal to 3 betting the turn because lots of people FSDR all the damn time.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

DD, what about the Spicy F argument that c/r this river better controls the # of bets that go in?

EDIT: It's highly probable I never fully understood Spicy's theory with that line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Decent argument. I feel the differences is the SpicyF hand was HU against a good LAG that would certainly value bet the river thin or keep firing a missed semibluff. The guy in the OP here just sounds random, I could easily see him as the type to like FSDR with second pair, or an ace, or have a total bluff and then when he gets called on the turn just check and muck his hand on the river. Yeah he could definitely fire the 3rd barrel too but its not too likely he has a hand that can call the CR that we beat. What I mean is a guy like this probably has a range that's more likely silly trash and random 2 pairs, straights, etc. than a worse ace or some other one pair that can bet the river and pay off a raise.

I wouldn't even really mind this hand if fivesense just check/called the river, its just when he CRs there I can't help but think that bet would be much better served on the turn where he can charge the draws, and maybe hopeless hands that call a 3 bet anyway (weird bluffs that have a gutshot for instance).

-DeathDonkey

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

So if you 3-bet the turn, do you call a 4-bet and c/f river UI? Fold right there?

Re: Am i too sexy for my shirt?
 

I'm still MOST interested in what this guys preflop raising range is???

You've established he plays like a retard post flop... but didn't mention much about his raising range vs his calling station range.

I would hate for you to take YOURSELF to value town here.