20/40 QQ turn
 

Villain is a middle aged asian who's been active the past couple orbits, just sat down and unfortunately I'm not observant enough to have any more info.

Vil opens in the CO, I 3 bet Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] OTB, heads up for 7.25SB

Flop 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he check/raises, I 3 bet, he calls

Turn A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he check/raises...

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

This was at commerce FWIW. Does it make a difference if this was at 40/80? Trying to get a feel for how aggro live players are, thanks.

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

Check the turn - he may have beaten you with that card or possibly had you beat already. And your check may induce a bluff on the river from him. If you do bet the turn, I think you have to fold to his raise.

Edit to add: If he has JJ or something similar he has two outs and may very likely fold the turn bc the ace means you got there if you weren't already ahead. Your check will cause a laggy player to bet the river or at the very least check call, gaining you an extra bet.

Jeff

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check the turn - he may have beaten you with that card or possibly had you beat already. And your check may induce a bluff on the river from him. If you do bet the turn, I think you have to fold to his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

jeff is right on, check behind... with the line given it looks like AcTc or A-x two pr, i'd fold it either way though and i dont think he expects you to fold

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

Doesn't checking the turn turn my hand face up? Does it matter?

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't checking the turn turn my hand face up? Does it matter?

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Turns your hand face up so now everyone knows you have a flush draw. Enjoy the bluffs you might pick off on the river.

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check the turn - he may have beaten you with that card or possibly had you beat already. And your check may induce a bluff on the river from him. If you do bet the turn, I think you have to fold to his raise.

Edit to add: If he has JJ or something similar he has two outs and may very likely fold the turn bc the ace means you got there if you weren't already ahead. Your check will cause a laggy player to bet the river or at the very least check call, gaining you an extra bet.

Jeff

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Jeff--

Great post as usual. You're one of the (fewer and fewer) reasons I come to 2+2.

I think a lot of us, though, just don't get believed, and are getting checkraised by all sorts of stuff on the flop, and that stuff's not going to fold anywhere. My rough plan here would be:

-Against an unknown, check but don't love it, for the reasons you said.
-Against any of about 100 guys at various casinos who know me, bet. I can fold to a raise from a lot of them.
-If I slipped up and bet the turn when I shouldn't, I think you're right that it's a fold, if not the most comfortable one.

Mostly the issue here is that people's fighting-back-light range tends (for somewhat long collective-unconscious reasons I don't have time to explain here, and which you probably know) not to include hands with aces, so your hand is not much worse on the turn than it is on the flop. (Maybe things are different in this regard at Commerce.)

BTW, your articles are a real high point of the 2+2 magazine.

--Nate

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

I agree with others that checking the turn is the best play if you dont know what to do if check/raised.

However, once you bet the turn, I disagree with folding to this check/raise. I would call down. Here's my list of reasons why.

1) He's asian.
2) You said he's been active.
3) There are two flushdraws on the turn and an OESD possible.
4) Its very unlikely he has Ax given his flop line unless he has precisely AcXc,Ax9x,Ax6x,Ax2x or a slowplayed AA. So it looks to me that his range is heavily weighted towards monsters and semibluffs...There's a lot of draws out there.
5) Given your flop line, he knows youre not likely to have Ax either.
6) Extension of point 1. Seriously, how many Asians do you know at the middle limit's who can resist check/raising this turn with X [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 87s, X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]? FWIW, If I knew you were trying to play well, and I knew you didnt know me, I would check/raise the turn with all those holdings 100% of the time.

Im not saying this is a clear calldown. I think its close between calling down and folding. Also, Its not like Im an expert in this spot cuz honestly, I never bet this turn against an aggressive player. Im just telling you that I would call down in this spot, and now you know my thought process for why I would do that.

Re: 20/40 QQ turn
 

safe muck imo