Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fully in favor gun ownership and the right to defend yourself, but this seems excessive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not. If this mouth breather had to use a bat he would have stayed home. Guns make killing people too easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely. Nice job by the operator, "Why don't you stay on the phone with me til we can get some help there." No sympathy for this [censored] idiot at all, "boom, you're dead!" Are [censored] serious? If this isn't a banner case for gun control I don't know what is.

James

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, I don't get the sense from the tape that he went outside intent on killing someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

He actually says "I'm going to kill them."

[/ QUOTE ]

He also says "move and your dead" or something to that affect. But you're right, that's not going to sound good to a grand jury.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's almost definitely "Boom, you're dead@!"

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

also, wow that the texas law says you can use deadly force to 'protect property'.

James

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

ElSapo-

I don't know...

How do you claim self defense in a potential life threatening situation that you voluntarily entered? If his personal safety was really his top priority, he would have stayed inside.

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

All,

Definitely recommend listening to the whole call before commenting. Really interesting to listen to.

Here's an article with more details on the event and the legal issues:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5303222.html

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, I don't get the sense from the tape that he went outside intent on killing someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

He actually says "I'm going to kill them."

[/ QUOTE ]

He also says "move and your dead" or something to that affect. But you're right, that's not going to sound good to a grand jury.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's almost definitely "Boom, you're dead@!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Newspapers (some at least, I've only read a couple) are reporting it as "Move and your dead" .... I dunno.

I'm curious to hear how more people feel. I just can't get behind the absolute assertion that the guy was wrong. And I really don't think this is a strong case for gun control, or at least, not as strong as some people seem to think.

The guy realy sounds to me like he felt he didn't have a choice - he felt duty-bound to try and stop the thieves. He may well be an idiot, and he may really have been wrong. But I listen to the tape and it's just not so simple for me.

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

[ QUOTE ]
ElSapo-

I don't know...

How do you claim self defense in a potential life threatening situation that you voluntarily entered? If his personal safety was really his top priority, he would have stayed inside.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what happens after he leaves the house and before the shooting. Yes, he made a mistake by leaving the house. I agree with that.

Legally though, and perhaps in his own morality, he felt he could and should try and stop them. Once that decision is made, the situation evolves.

Once he's outside and saying, "stop" then things happen. I don't know how it goes from there. But was he within his rights to try and stop them? I don't know. I think he has a strong case, and when I listen to the tape I hear a lot more than just an idiot with a gun.

Although, I think I also hear that part.

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

I think he did feel duty bound to protect his neighbor's stuff. That's the problem. If they had been coming out of the house dragging a kicking and screaming wife in her night gown, it would be a hell of a lot different.

James

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

All,

'He actually says "I'm going to kill them."'

From the call:

"You're gonna get yourself shot if you go outside of the house with a gun."

"You wanna bet? I'm gonna kill them"

That operator did a phenomenal job imo.

After the guy's statements of "The law has changed" "I'm not going to let them get away with it" and various other stuff, his "I had no choice they came in the front yard with me... They come right in my yard I didn't know what the **** was gonna do" statements seem pretty questionable to me.

Feels to me like the guy went out there w/ a pretty solid idea he was probably gonna shoot those guys.

Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To
 

[ QUOTE ]


Newspapers (some at least, I've only read a couple) are reporting it as "Move and your dead" .... I dunno.

I'm curious to hear how more people feel. I just can't get behind the absolute assertion that the guy was wrong. And I really don't think this is a strong case for gun control, or at least, not as strong as some people seem to think.

The guy realy sounds to me like he felt he didn't have a choice - he felt duty-bound to try and stop the thieves. He may well be an idiot, and he may really have been wrong. But I listen to the tape and it's just not so simple for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think the neighbor's VCR was worth the lives of two men? This guy did. He thought about it, the 911 operator urged him repeatedly to cool down, and then he decided that yes, he should kill (or run a very high risk of killing) two people to save his neighbor's stuff. That's evil and depraved. Valuing consumer electronics over people's lives is exactly the sort of thing we need to be locking people up for.