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***Official Bicker about Manning vs. Brady Thread***
I guess WR's do make a difference. Harrison went out in game 4 vs denver this year.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> manning with harrison yrds cmp% td int rating game 1 288.0 60.0 3.0 0.0 125.4 game 2 312.0 66.7 1.0 1.0 86.6 game 3 273.0 69.0 1.0 0.0 110.3 game 4 193.0 74.1 3.0 0.0 130.6 average 266.5 67.5 2.0 0.3 113.2 manning without harrison yrds cmp% td int rating game 5 253.0 78.4 2.0 1.0 101.9 game 6 259.0 62.2 1.0 1.0 80.8 game 7 255.0 46.7 2.0 0.0 98.6 game 8 225.0 59.3 1.0 1.0 83.1 game 9 328.0 60.7 2.0 6.0 49.4 game 10 163.0 50.0 0.0 1.0 52.0 average 247.2 59.6 1.3 1.7 77.6 brady 2006 with a much worse receiving corps than 2007 manning yrds cmp% td int rating average 220.6 61.8 1.5 0.8 87.9 </pre><hr /> I know you can't directly compare these stats for sample size reasons, offensive line reasons, etc, but the dropoff is pretty remarkable. oh and before you comment, consider this short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1piy...eature=related Edit: The Bonds thread worked well. Let's try it again! |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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I know you can't directly compare these stats for sample size reasons [/ QUOTE ] SO STOP DOING IT AND STOP COMING TO FAULTY CONCLUSIONS THAT HAVE NO STATISTICAL WEIGHT. Seriously. 2p2 needs to follow FO and make an irrational Brady v Manning thread, and all idiotic discussions should go in there and ONLY there. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact.
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Seriously. 2p2 needs to follow FO and make an irrational Brady v Manning thread, and all idiotic discussions should go in there and ONLY there. [/ QUOTE ] i looked for that thread on here before posting this... |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Kellen Clemens is the new Vince Young.
imo |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] Seriously. 2p2 needs to follow FO and make an irrational Brady v Manning thread, and all idiotic discussions should go in there and ONLY there. [/ QUOTE ] i looked for that thread on here before posting this... [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
1. There are already threads about this.
2. If you think that its just Harrison missing you are crazy. The Colts have also played without their #3WR Gonzalez and didn't have Dallas Clark for the the SD game (the game that is skewing this statical sample horribly). 3. Manning is playing behind a patchwork O-line. I don't pay very close attention to the Pats line, but I doubt very seriously that they have had anything like this rash of injuries. In the SD game the Colts had a guy at LT that was on the practice squad the week before. I seriously doubt that has ever happened before in the NFL. Guys don't come off the practice squad and protect a QBs blindside, it usually another line man moving over but the Colts were down 3 O-linemen and out of options. 4. There is a huge difference between having shoddy WRs that you've been practicing with since camp and having shoddy WRs that just started getting reps with the first team. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Remember that game where the Colts had like 17 active offensive players?
Yeah, it's not just Harrison that's missing. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
The colts were pretty short again today. They dressed Gonzalez who they had no intention of playing. I've never heard of a team having trouble dressing a full contingent of healthy players before. It sucks but its just a freakish thing that you can't do anything about.
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Seriously what is with the trolls lately, its like they are all coming out of the woodwork now that Brady is have the best season ever. Yeah, we know you are a Pats fan and Brady is the second coming, etc. Is this thread really necessary? Aren't there like a million other places to discuss this?
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy [/ QUOTE ] I'd probably put him right after LT, Steven Jackson, AD, LJ, and Westbrook. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy [/ QUOTE ] I mentioned God didn't I? |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
these manning/brady discussions are stupid as neither of them are on tony romos level geez
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy [/ QUOTE ] I mentioned God didn't I? [/ QUOTE ] Except the fact that VY is Jesus Christ. God = mini-ditka and to be honest, I think its mini-ditka > VY >>>>>> Favre. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy [/ QUOTE ] I mentioned God didn't I? [/ QUOTE ] Except the fact that VY is Jesus Christ. God = mini-ditka and to be honest, I think its mini-ditka > VY >>>>>> Favre. [/ QUOTE ] If they cloned mini-Ditka 22 times and made 2 teams. Who would win? |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Manning, Brady, Romo, God. No stats to back it up; it's just a fact. [/ QUOTE ] where does VY fit into this hierarchy [/ QUOTE ] I mentioned God didn't I? [/ QUOTE ] Except the fact that VY is Jesus Christ. God = mini-ditka and to be honest, I think its mini-ditka > VY >>>>>> Favre. [/ QUOTE ] If they cloned mini-Ditka 22 times and made 2 teams. Who would win? [/ QUOTE ] the patriots still |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Kellen Clemens is the new Vince Young. imo [/ QUOTE ] You can't be God if you're stuck on a 2-8 ballclub. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
i am not sure the point of the OP are you trying to say that some people think Manning > Brady? LOLZ
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Manning and Brady are two of the greatest QBs ever to step on a football field, and we, as football fans, should feel blessed to have an opportunity to watch them week in and week out.
There, thread over. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Brady is proving this year how he is leagues ahead of Manning.
He's been playing with used car salesmen at receiver for years and still managed to win 3 superbowls with these mediocre weapons. Manning had the best receiving group in the league for years and only managed 1 superbowl. Now when Brady finally has weapons comparable to Manning's (with an inferior running back), he is blowing him out of the water in terms of stats and wins. Manning's team suffers some injuries and all of a sudden we see how average he is with only decent receivers. The patriots superbowl teams were littered with injuries on offense and defense and they never used excuses like this 2007 colts team. The debate is officially over. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
I'm pretty sure Eli Manning > Peyton > Brady > Vinnie Testaverde > Rex Grossman > the rest of the NFL
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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The debate is officially over. [/ QUOTE ] Good. That means you will never post on the subject ever again, right? Please tell me I'm right. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Brady is proving this year how he is leagues ahead of Manning. He's been playing with used car salesmen at receiver for years and still managed to win 3 superbowls with these mediocre weapons. Manning had the best receiving group in the league for years and only managed 1 superbowl. Now when Brady finally has weapons comparable to Manning's (with an inferior running back), he is blowing him out of the water in terms of stats and wins. Manning's team suffers some injuries and all of a sudden we see how average he is with only decent receivers. The patriots superbowl teams were littered with injuries on offense and defense and they never used excuses like this 2007 colts team. The debate is officially over. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmmm..... Brady's D >>>>>>>>>> Manning's D most of the time they've competed for a title. Brady never had to be as good as Manning had to be. Manning's D might be better than Brady's D this year but Brady's Pass O >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>> Manning's this year. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
God I hate PLO8killa so much. There is no excuse for him to still be posting.
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Manning and Brady are two of the greatest QBs ever to step on a football field, and we, as football fans, should feel blessed to have an opportunity to watch them week in and week out. There, thread over. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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God I hate PLO8killa so much. There is no excuse for him to still be posting. [/ QUOTE ] why don't you try addressing what i posted. saying "troll" or saying you hate me only proves my point further. If it's so ridiculous it should be very easy to provide a solid response. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
How much do we discount Brady's rating for his coaches illegally recording the opposition's defense? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
How much do we discount for the other as-of-yet-undiscovered ways that the Pats' coaches have been cheating since Belichick took over? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Warning: This post is intended to rile up Patriot fans and should not be used to inspire serious debate. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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How much do we discount Brady's rating for his coaches illegally recording the opposition's defense? [/ QUOTE ] the videotaping clearly HURT Brady, ldo, just look at the #'s for this year vs last |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
So how will the rest of the teams in the NFL react. Let's say the Pats keep Moss. Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats? Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss? There will be a reaction to what the Pats have done by the NFL or the other teams. The 80s dynasties were fixed through FA. Now the Pats have gotten around it by getting good players to pay for less (Both Thomas and Moss are paid less than Market value, Thomas slightly less (9ers offered a bigger deal) and Moss much less (he took a paycut).
The Pats are fun, but they won't be fun for the NFL in the long run to lessen the parity that seemed to exist for the last 10 years. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] God I hate PLO8killa so much. There is no excuse for him to still be posting. [/ QUOTE ] why don't you try addressing what i posted. saying "troll" or saying you hate me only proves my point further. If it's so ridiculous it should be very easy to provide a solid response. [/ QUOTE ] People have been providing very solid responses to you for weeks now. Hasn't helped. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats? [/ QUOTE ] there aren't many. Asante & Moss are the 2 huge ones. Bruschi and Seau iirc, but I can't see them going anywhere but NE at this point. it's very doubtful Stallworth will be back, he's due for like a $7m roster bonus. I think the Pats hope Chad Jackson (high pick from last year, just got activated) will be able to fill in his role. the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s. [ QUOTE ] Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss? [/ QUOTE ] you're talking about mb the best WR ever (at his peak). he's an extreme rarity, I'm not sure if that can/should cause a league wide adjustment. the dynasty is still a precarious thing - a few bad FA signings and bad drafts will hurt. though, the cap has risen enough that teams right now have a bit more room for error . this will change in a couple years though, as old contracts expire |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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God I hate PLO8killa so much. There is no excuse for him to still be posting. [/ QUOTE ] QFT And since he ignores all legitimate responses there's no way to make him stop. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] Will the rest of the teams try to grab up FAs from the Pats? [/ QUOTE ] there aren't many. Asante & Moss are the 2 huge ones. Bruschi and Seau iirc, but I can't see them going anywhere but NE at this point. it's very doubtful Stallworth will be back, he's due for like a $7m roster bonus. I think the Pats hope Chad Jackson (high pick from last year, just got activated) will be able to fill in his role. the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s. [ QUOTE ] Will the CBs have to get larger to overcome Moss? [/ QUOTE ] you're talking about mb the best WR ever (at his peak). he's an extreme rarity, I'm not sure if that can/should cause a league wide adjustment. the dynasty is still a precarious thing - a few bad FA signings and bad drafts will hurt. though, the cap has risen enough that teams right now have a bit more room for error . this will change in a couple years though, as old contracts expire [/ QUOTE ] I also mean, yeah, this year they should be fine e/c those 2. But in the long run teams are going to go after their o-line and there marginally good guys. These things eventually killed other dynasties. Right now, the only guys look like the Pats would die without are Brady in all likelyhood. But guys on their D-line will eventually want more money and they aren't all that replacable especially Seymour (I know he has a long term deal), Wilfork, etc. My point is, yes the Pats are killing now not only b/c they have better personnel, management, coaching, etc. Eventually what they are doing will be known by the league (not saying it's illegal) and they will react to bring the train eventually down. |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Eventually what they are doing will be known by the league (not saying it's illegal) and they will react to bring the train eventually down. [/ QUOTE ] I think a large part of their success has been "find one of the top 5 QB's ever" and "hire maybe the best HC ever". I don't think that is very repeatable [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] of course you're right, they have also done well in the draft and in the FA market. but the league saw what this team was doing as far back as 2003 and 2004, and has been doing the things you talked about since then (signing our free agents, etc). even in 2005 we were 1 controversial game away from hosting the AFC championship game, and last year we did play in the championship game. ironically we won in 2001 when the team was not really elite, but that means the team has been in the public eye since 2001 and elite from 2003-2007, and not much has really changed, and in fact this team is the easily the best of the bunch ironically, the more teams pay big money for our replaceable parts (ie Damien Woody with the Lions, Daniel Graham with the Broncos, Deion Branch, the list goes on and on) the more it hurts them and helps us. their cap space gets smaller, ours gets bigger. the Pats have basically refused to pay for what a guy has ALREADY done, their draft record has been pretty damn good, and they have all time greats at the 2 most important positions (HC and QB). I'm not sure what their doing is very repeatable, except by the Colts or until the next great QB emerges. eventually the dynasty will end of course, but I think it will be when Brady gets old & BB retires & we start making bad personnel mistakes. ie 2-4 more years. another random point which I'm sure you don't want to think about: the trade with the 49ers is going to give us a huge boost. that pick is likely to be around #3, which they will be able trade into 2 20ish picks and maybe more. there is an outside chance that pick turns into 3 #1's |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe it's just me being optimistic, but did anyone see his post game interview? He looked pretty darn happy. "I'm in a dream. It's too good to be true. I'm with the Patriots." |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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[ QUOTE ] the big question is if Moss will takes a discount to stay in NE, where he is winning and putting up huge #'s. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe it's just me being optimistic, but did anyone see his post game interview? He looked pretty darn happy. "I'm in a dream. It's too good to be true. I'm with the Patriots." [/ QUOTE ] Yep, I can't see him leaving. He's getting older and he's made his money (ironically by playing awful/refusing to play) so now I'd guess it's time for him to take a cut and stay with NE. Of course to paraphrase the Native American proverb "When you picked me up you knew I was Randy Moss". Cody |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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1. There are already threads about this. 2. If you think that its just Harrison missing you are crazy. The Colts have also played without their #3WR Gonzalez and didn't have Dallas Clark for the the SD game (the game that is skewing this statical sample horribly). 3. Manning is playing behind a patchwork O-line. I don't pay very close attention to the Pats line, but I doubt very seriously that they have had anything like this rash of injuries. In the SD game the Colts had a guy at LT that was on the practice squad the week before. I seriously doubt that has ever happened before in the NFL. Guys don't come off the practice squad and protect a QBs blindside, it usually another line man moving over but the Colts were down 3 O-linemen and out of options. 4. There is a huge difference between having shoddy WRs that you've been practicing with since camp and having shoddy WRs that just started getting reps with the first team. [/ QUOTE ] Quoted the whole post since it's all true, but the fact that it's taken weeks for someone else to mention #4 tilts the [censored] out of me. More people should besides Colts' fans should be mentioning this. Cody |
Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
Brady is knocking up super models while Peyton is tricking Eli into giving him a hj.
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Re: Manning stats without Harrison vs Brady
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Brady is knocking up super models while Peyton is tricking Eli into giving him a hj. [/ QUOTE ] qft |
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