Re: uh-oh
 

eric,

Nice post. Thanks.

Re: uh-oh
 

calllllllllll

it's obvious you have a big hand and telling him he can get you off it when the backdoor flush comes in is stupido

Re: uh-oh
 

Putting yourself in villains shoes, would anyone here in their right mind try to push TWO players off a likely set/top2 and top pair with a river check/raise bluff on a barely scary backdoor flush?
Especially when one of those players was considered only "OK? (and therefore more likely to call)"

You guys must be playing in some damn tough games, cause ive never seen anything close from a solid player unless they were a super spazz or on tilt (ive done it before, but certainly not to push someone off bottom set).

Its not like its unlikely that he hit this flush either.
His hand is wayyy more likely QJs instead of QJo because of the preflop SB call.

~1/4 of the time he's check/raising this on the river with his rivered flush.

However, stinkypetes advice is pretty important... What kind of image are you trying to build? By folding this river, you've basically announced to the table that you can fold a monster on the river in a big pot to someone repping a backdoor flush.

Re: uh-oh
 

[ QUOTE ]
{QJc(1), 33(3), KQo(9), KT(9)}

[/ QUOTE ]
doubt if pbob caps the flop with kq or qj. I'd guess we're more likely to see a semi-slowplayed TT. So make his range:
{K3s (2), KT (9), 33(3), TT(1)}.

Obviously it doesn't change your calculation, except that now he can fold KT at least some of the time.

Re: uh-oh
 

Thanks vma. I wondered about KQ as well when I was posting.

I'm a bit surprised to see you discount QJ so heavily. If your range is correct, the pbob always has a made hand when he caps the flop. Given how easily exploited that is, I'd be surprised to see a good player not add about the right number of draws to his capping range, especially given that it costs so little getting 2:1 on his money.

So, to sum up... it's pretty clear that calling here is the "default" play, and folding is exploitable but arguably correct since it's so difficult for villain to bluff-raise the "correct" amount here.

It's fun to wonder though... what is pokerbob's flop capping range really? Care to give us some insight pbob?

thanks,
Eric

Re: uh-oh
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks vma. I wondered about KQ as well when I was posting.

I'm a bit surprised to see you discount QJ so heavily. If your range is correct, the pbob always has a made hand when he caps the flop. Given how easily exploited that is, I'd be surprised to see a good player not add about the right number of draws to his capping range, especially given that it costs so little getting 2:1 on his money.

So, to sum up... it's pretty clear that calling here is the "default" play, and folding is exploitable but arguably correct since it's so difficult for villain to bluff-raise the "correct" amount here.

It's fun to wonder though... what is pokerbob's flop capping range really? Care to give us some insight pbob?

thanks,
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

i have KT or 33 here nearly always.

Re: uh-oh
 

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of image are you trying to build? By folding this river, you've basically announced to the table that you can fold a monster on the river in a big pot to someone repping a backdoor flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure, but I'm *pretty* sure that folding here doesn't commit PBob to folding in similar situations in the future. Unless there's some sort of contract signed that he didn't mention.

Re: uh-oh
 

folding in huge pots with a set is just a bad idea

Re: uh-oh
 

Maybe it's a leak of mine, but I apply the "I HAVE SET, CAN'T FOLD!!!" mantra here and call.

Re: uh-oh
 

I call and wouldn't beat myself up at all afterwards.