Home game rules - slight rant
 

Warning: The following post may contain sarcasm and irony.

Are most home game players not aware that there are poker rule books? Do most home games just operate by the seat of their pants and resolve problems only as they arise rather than trying to anticipate possible problems or actually learning the rules or having a rule book handy?

As I read the different posts about situations and what to do there is almost always a response where someone asks if you have a house rule concerning the issue. Sombody usually also suggests the poster establish a house rule. I have yet to see a situation (I'm sure they probably exist) that is not already covered by current rules. So, the only reason a house rule is needed is because it is different than the current, established rule. If there is no specific house rule then the established rule should apply. (I guess if your clueless about the established rules then your just winging it). I just don't understand why people ask if there is a house rule. If there was the poster wouldn't be posting as there wouldn't have been a problem. And there is no need to establish a house rule, unless one plans to deviate from the established rule.

How many other pursuits / activities do people participate in where they don't know the rules or make up their own? Does anyone have their own rules for driving...Sorry officer, but the speed limit doesn't apply to me because I have my own car rules. And just try to plead ignorance and see how far you get.

Maybe some other games or sports? Does anybody sit down to play any other card game or board game (besides Monopoly and possibly Risk) where they have no clue to the rules and / or make up their own? Tennis? Golf? Backgammon? Chess? Bridge?.....Rock climbing would be good. You can create your own rules concerning gravity. (Let me know where I can send the flowers.. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

What makes poker different?

I'll conceed / agree that one doesn't need to follow the letter of the law in a friendly home game, but the rules still exist, and they should be enforced to some extent, with consistency and fairness in mind. A little knowledge is a wonderful thing.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

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Are most home game players not aware that there are poker rule books? Do most home games just operate by the seat of their pants and resolve problems only as they arise rather than trying to anticipate possible problems or actually learning the rules or having a rule book handy?

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Yes and yes.

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As I read the different posts about situations and what to do there is almost always a response where someone asks if you have a house rule concerning the issue. Sombody usually also suggests the poster establish a house rule. I have yet to see a situation (I'm sure they probably exist) that is not already covered by current rules. So, the only reason a house rule is needed is because it is different than the current, established rule. If there is no specific house rule then the established rule should apply.

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Many rules vary between specific B&M casinos. There is not one set of "established rules" that covers every situation. For example, the rule on exposing cards tends to vary quite a bit between casinos.

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How many other pursuits / activities do people participate in where they don't know the rules or make up their own?

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Many. Some that come to mind are sex, dating, standing in line. Also, you mention golf as having a defined set of rules. I have yet to see anyone assess themselves a 2 stroke penalty for offering "advice" when they give me an unwelcome swing tip. In fact, they usually act like I am a jerk for bringing it up.

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

"And there is no need to establish a house rule, unless one plans to deviate from the established rule."

I'm sorry I didn't realize that there was a uniform accepted set of poker rules. Kindly tell me where I can get a copy.

I am a professional poker dealer. I have dealt in 6 different Las Vegas Casinos (including the WSOP). Whenever i start a new dealing job I must ask what the house rules are. There are many things which different rooms handle differently. does an exposed card to the button constitituet a misdeal?n some places it does, some places it doesn't. Which is the "established" rule as you would say and which is the deviant house rule? How is a betting line enforced? I doubt I have bene in any two casinos which enforce them the same way?

The bottom line is that there are some rules which are pretty much universally accepted in poker --- the ranks of hands is one. Then there are many rules upon which there is no single accepted standard and that is whymany posters refer to house rules.

You ask what other sport or games has house rules? Well one that comes to mind immediately is baseball. Question for you. How many innings in a baseball game? Nine you say? Well what if that game is a little league game in an age group that plays 7 inning games? But even within Major League baseball we have house rules. We see that in domed stadiums a ball which hits the roof is out of play, in others it is in play.

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

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Many rules vary between specific B&M casinos. There is not one set of "established rules" that covers every situation. For example, the rule on exposing cards tends to vary quite a bit between casinos.

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There is one set of rules, The fact of the matter is the casinos have their own "house rules".

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How many other pursuits / activities do people participate in where they don't know the rules or make up their own?

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Many. Some that come to mind are sex, dating, standing in line. Also, you mention golf as having a defined set of rules. I have yet to see anyone assess themselves a 2 stroke penalty for offering "advice" when they give me an unwelcome swing tip. In fact, they usually act like I am a jerk for bringing it up.

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But the rule still exists, everyone just chooses to ignore it. I'll give you the whole sex / dating thing. But standing in line..defintely a set of rules there...lol

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

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There is one set of rules, The fact of the matter is the casinos have their own "house rules".

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Where are these established rules published? Who established them? Is there a procedure for amending them?

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

Have you not heard of "Robert's Rules of Poker"?

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

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"And there is no need to establish a house rule, unless one plans to deviate from the established rule."

I'm sorry I didn't realize that there was a uniform accepted set of poker rules. Kindly tell me where I can get a copy.

I am a professional poker dealer. I have dealt in 6 different Las Vegas Casinos (including the WSOP). Whenever i start a new dealing job I must ask what the house rules are. There are many things which different rooms handle differently. does an exposed card to the button constitituet a misdeal?n some places it does, some places it doesn't. Which is the "established" rule as you would say and which is the deviant house rule? How is a betting line enforced? I doubt I have bene in any two casinos which enforce them the same way?

The bottom line is that there are some rules which are pretty much universally accepted in poker --- the ranks of hands is one. Then there are many rules upon which there is no single accepted standard and that is whymany posters refer to house rules.

You ask what other sport or games has house rules? Well one that comes to mind immediately is baseball. Question for you. How many innings in a baseball game? Nine you say? Well what if that game is a little league game in an age group that plays 7 inning games? But even within Major League baseball we have house rules . We see that in domed stadiums a ball which hits the roof is out of play, in others it is in play.

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I'm not saying house rules don't exist and that guys shouldn't make up house rules. And as you have pointed out a lot of casinos do have their own house rules.

For a rule book how about "Robert's Rules of Poker". Notice it's not named Robert's Suggestions of Poker.(There's others too) I'm surprised that as a professional dealer you have not heard of these. My main point is that this rule books exists and it covers almost everything imaginable so if you don't have a specific house rule the defacto response should not be to make something up, but to consult the rule book. Let's look at your example of an exposed card to the button. (I assume you mean on the deal and caused by the dealer) If you have no known established "house" rule what do you do? Just make something up? How about looking at Robert's rules (or better yet being familiar with the rules enough to know) and finding out the answer is no it's not a misdeal. No need to create a rule when one already exists. Now, if you want to disagree with the rule and create your own "house" rule then by all means go for it. I'm sure this is how some new fun games get created. It is what the casinos have done. And that is why players are always advised to find out the house rules as they differ from place to place and from the standard set by Robert's Rules.

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

What...you never used a foot wedge when playing golf with your buddies?

If it's an informal game, things can be worked out with a gentleman's agreement. If you're more serious, get a rule book. But insisting EVERYONE needs a rulebook is stupid.

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

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Have you not heard of "Robert's Rules of Poker"?

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At the risk of sounding as arrogant as you do, where in Robert's Rules does it claim to be the Be All and End All of poker rules?

I could write a set of rules today and call it LMCJAHO's Rules Of Poker - Follow These OR ELSE! - doesn't mean they're actually going to follow them in every casino, card room and home game world-wide, does it?

Re: Home game rules - slight rant
 

Sorry if I sounded arrogant as that wasn't my intent.

And your 100% correct. You could write a set of rules. I never said one must follow Robert's Rules, I believe I've actually said pretty much the opposite. And it has already been pointed out by several others a lot of places do have their own rules. But the majority of the rules they follow are in Robert's Rules. And I only use Robert's Rules as an example as that is the rulebook I am most familiar with.

And I don't think I ever said those rules must be followed. I think I said pretty much the opposite. My point was that they exist. Follow, alter, ignore them to whatever extent suits your game. But to think that when an incident occurs in your home game you need to make up a rule is wrong. There is a rule already in place you just don't know it. Once you know the correct rules you can then choose to apply them in the best interest of your game