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-   -   Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=555694)

roggles 11-27-2007 04:48 PM

Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
What should I do in this situation? I folded because I felt my draw to improve sucked and I didn't have any A or K to hit better two pair

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $183.70
UTG+1: $135.30
roggles: $116.60
Button: $138.90
SB: $100
BB: $79.05

Pre-flop: (6 players) roggles is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $3.5</font>, UTG+1 calls, roggles calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($18.5, 5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $18.5</font>, roggles folds

sondring 11-27-2007 04:53 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
reads on UTG?

I don't get why you think you're behind in the hand.

I'd call the flop and re-evaluate the turn.

CrushinFelt 11-27-2007 05:00 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
Doesn't seem too terrible to me, but it's a litle weak. I'd probably call and see if he bets the turn again. With only one person left to act his range likely includes a lot of draws.

gordo16 11-27-2007 05:05 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
WTF? every time I read one of your posts it tllts the hell out of me roggles. I truly don't understand how you can be a winning player if you ever play a hand like this. Either call or raise this flop 100% of the time IMO... I mean honestly, what kind of flop are you looking for? You flopped top 2 and a gutshot draw to the second nuts. How you dont at least call here baffles me. OK. Rant over.

CrushinFelt 11-27-2007 05:12 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
[ QUOTE ]
WTF? every time I read one of your posts it tllts the hell out of me roggles. I truly don't understand how you can be a winning player if you ever play a hand like this. Either call or raise this flop 100% of the time IMO... I mean honestly, what kind of flop are you looking for? You flopped top 2 and a gutshot draw to the second nuts. How you dont at least call here baffles me. OK. Rant over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising likely only gets action from sets. I agree folding is probably weak, but at these levels this person's range probably isn't wide enough to warrant a raise.

roggles 11-27-2007 05:24 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
I don't know if I am a winning player ... I think I am better than most people at 0.5/1 and a lot better than most people at 1/2 CAP. But I don't have a particularly large sample on PLO. The only games I know I beat are sit and gos in hold em and HORSE, and stud H/L cash game.

Anyway, as CrushinFelt points out, I think you are putting people at too wide a hand range at these limits. People don't give a lot of action. At 0.25/0.5 limits I am almost positive raising here is bad. People never stack off with anything but the nuts at that limit. I cannot win there because I am not patient enough. I imagine you feel similarly about 0.5/1

gordo16 11-27-2007 05:41 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I am a winning player ... I think I am better than most people at 0.5/1 and a lot better than most people at 1/2 CAP. But I don't have a particularly large sample on PLO. The only games I know I beat are sit and gos in hold em and HORSE, and stud H/L cash game.

Anyway, as CrushinFelt points out, I think you are putting people at too wide a hand range at these limits. People don't give a lot of action. At 0.25/0.5 limits I am almost positive raising here is bad. People never stack off with anything but the nuts at that limit. I cannot win there because I am not patient enough. I imagine you feel similarly about 0.5/1

[/ QUOTE ]

from my limited 6k hand sample or so, I must say that I completely disagree with the statement that people only play the nuts..

Rob121 11-27-2007 05:43 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
i call here mostly raise sometimes depending on villian never fold.

sondring 11-27-2007 05:47 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
I'm playing these games now @ FTP and 100% agree with gordo.

Kurn, son of Mogh 11-27-2007 05:54 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
I don't know if I am a winning player

&lt;sigh&gt; You should know precisely how much you are ahead/behind in every game you play. If you don't, that's a huge leak.

How can you get better if you don't know where you stand?

roggles 11-27-2007 06:00 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I am a winning player

&lt;sigh&gt; You should know precisely how much you are ahead/behind in every game you play. If you don't, that's a huge leak.

How can you get better if you don't know where you stand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for this condescending advice from someone who doesn't even post in this forum. I clearly pointed out I don't have many hands put in

sondring 11-27-2007 06:02 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
[ QUOTE ]

&lt;sigh&gt; You should know precisely how much you are ahead/behind in every game you play. If you don't, that's a huge leak.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with that statement.

What I think OP meant though, was that his simple size isn't large enough to determine if he is a winning player.

Kurn, son of Mogh 11-28-2007 02:13 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I am a winning player

&lt;sigh&gt; You should know precisely how much you are ahead/behind in every game you play. If you don't, that's a huge leak.

How can you get better if you don't know where you stand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for this condescending advice from someone who doesn't even post in this forum. I clearly pointed out I don't have many hands put in

[/ QUOTE ]

I made an incorrect assumption from what you said. My intention was not how it came off. Apologies.

praios 11-28-2007 10:51 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
many idiots play in plo games this days i at least call the flop

crashwhips 11-28-2007 11:33 PM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
I'm never folding here. I'm almost always raising, but just calling to shove a turn Jack or 7 or lower is fine too.

Also, you are way, way off the mark as far as people only playing the nuts at these levels, at least if the .5/1 games on FTP are at all similar to the stars games at that level. From all your posts, it seems like you are playing very scared poker. Get in there and gamble and play marginal spots more aggressively in general, and I bet your profitability will increase dramatically.

grizy 11-29-2007 08:39 AM

Re: Help with flopped TTP and ass-end gutshot
 
at .5/1 (I 9 and even 12 table those limits when I am not playing higher stakes), you get the nits and idiots with 1 or 2 occasional sharks.

I raise here against an unknown but there are a lot of players at those levels against which this hand is a fold. I am going with Gordo here that flat calling is bad. There is a LOT of value raising with two pairs at these limits.


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