i just felt like posting a hand
 

full 40 at oceans, i am losing a little and playing really tight and can still see straight. i forget who initial pfr is but i remember he was tight. 3bettor is nitty/crappy imo but i think he plays poker for a living so he's certainly not the worst. even though he doesnt play well he is definitely aware of how i play and how i view him and play against him as a result.

so fold to pfr who is somewhere in MP and then fold to villain who 3bets from hj or co. i call 2.5 cold in sb with AA. moke is the bb and laughs at me as he folds bc my play is so absurd and he knows id never mess around against these guys. i tell him that my hand is too good to fold but not good enough to raise again so i gotta do what i gotta do.

flop J53r and i c/r, initial pfr folds and villain calls

turn 7 badugi i bet he calls

river Q i c/r

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
full 40 at oceans, i am losing a little and playing really tight and can still see straight. i forget who initial pfr is but i remember he was tight. 3bettor is nitty/crappy imo but i think he plays poker for a living so he's certainly not the worst. even though he doesnt play well he is definitely aware of how i play and how i view him and play against him as a result.

so fold to pfr who is somewhere in MP and then fold to villain who 3bets from hj or co. i call 2.5 cold in sb with AA. moke is the bb and laughs at me as he folds bc my play is so absurd and he knows id never mess around against these guys. i tell him that my hand is too good to fold but not good enough to raise again so i gotta do what i gotta do.

flop J53r and i c/r, initial pfr folds and villain calls

turn 7 badugi i bet he calls

river Q i c/r

[/ QUOTE ]

think about how much fun this would have been had you 4bet preflop and taken the same postflop line.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

What exactly is villain's range when he bets the river? I'm having trouble interpreting your read.

Does he always have {TT+,AQ+} when he 3-bet tight MP opener pf?
If he can have AQ, would he really peel the turn with it?
Would he make a bad call with TT or AK on the river?
Would he ever bet those hands if you check to him?

I'm asking all these questions cuz the player type I have in mind always has JJ+ when he bets the river so all you have is a call when he bets. Which means you should have bet the river yourself and called a raise cuz he might easily wait til the river to raise an overpair/set to "show you who's boss".

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

he expects me to bet a J or better on river bc he knows scare cards dont scare me until someone raises me. he will not call river with AK but will call with any pocket pair he 3bet which is prob like 88+ in this spot. ill say his range pf here is like 88+/AQo+/AJs+/maybe KQs and 77. calling him a nit probably wasnt the right description and in fact is a pretty crappy one, more like straightforward/careful/abc preflop and postflop.

the thing is that i have AA 100% of the time here but i know he doesnt know that so i wasnt really sure what my hand looked like to him exactly but i felt that the vast majority of things he can call w/ on the river he can bet for value so i was better off seeing if he wanted to make a bad payoff of my c/r.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

Meh...the river c/r only works out brilliantly if he has KK, AQ, or KQ. Otherwise, does he really call your raise with a worse hand? If you're fairly sure he has KK, then I love it...but, you have to wonder why he didn't pop the turn. To me, this makes AJ a possibility (esp. since he bet the river).

IMO, I think c/c > c/r > b/c > b/f (I revised this order a couple of times before I actually posted). I'm starting to like c/c a lot, since your river check makes him believe that you might have [TT-88] (maybe AJ) and are giving up on the river. Therefore, he'd bet his AJ, AQ, KK, AA. To me, it's hard to see how you get 2 bets from him on the river(whether it's from a b/c or c/r) and are ahead.

You might have been able to build a larger pot by just flat-calling the flop...I'm not totally sure.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

well if he can have 77-99 here and will bet river when you check then i like it. seems like a stretch for most players at this limit though.

Can't resist saying that this hand is a good example of how hard it is to make back the ~.4-.5 BB in equity you lost by not capping pf.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

"i tell him that my hand is too good to fold but not good enough to raise again so i gotta do what i gotta do."

tellbox

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

i dont think you played this hand. i think you were the cutoff. also i think cutoff has QQ or KK.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

in all fairness moke already knew i had AA when i called 2.5 bc even though hes not the greatest player he knows that im a genius and will never take the worst of it against these guys. however if moke was the initial raiser or especially 3bettor i would have capped. these guys werent smart enough to realize what i am doing so the play is good against their ranges imo. maybe im wrong since i have no live pt but i really feel people spew baaaaaaaaaad if disguise KK/AA pf as you can often get like 3-4 bets on the turn. you also get a lot more A high calldowns

and yes this was played by me. i will admit to being pozzed in spots like this where people coldcall lots of bets and i never think they have my QQ/KK beat and they show up with AA but nobody live is smart enough to get river c/r in here.

plus for me to be CO here with QQ/KK i would have had to misplay my hand by missing bets on flop or turn which wouldnt happen.

fwiw im really confused as to what co actually had as he bet reasonably fast and folded even faster to the c/r with sort of an "oops i dont know why i bet" look on his face after my raise hit the felt.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

I guess your flat 4-bet out of SB is too small/non-existent?

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

no i still cap TT-QQ/AK here, they play better after the flop that way, especially against these villains and theyre still in good shape against ranges of the villains. i prob cap KK usually but am capable of just calling that too.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
no i still cap TT-QQ/AK here, they play better after the flop that way, especially against these villains and theyre still in good shape against ranges of the villains. i prob cap KK usually but am capable of just calling that too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know most of the villains there and I highly disagree.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

i think they were in late enough position that their ranges were wide enough but its certainly not impossible im wrong here. if it was utg open utg+1 3bet from these same 2 villains then TT/JJ are instant folds and i'm capping QQ/AK calling AA and mixing it up with KK as before.

i assume when you say disagree you meant to the ranges being wide enough not the part about those hands playing better when capped? if you think they play better by calling please elaborate bc if i cap and receive further action i can show down or fold fairly confidently depending on what happens exactly. if i call then i may leave myself wondering with my JJ if he can have 99-TT enough of the time or something like that, or perhaps wind up c/c flop and turn only to be confused on the river.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

Oceans 40- 90% Bet out. People that play that game are way to passive on the river, they are constantly missing bets on the river.

Commerce 40- 95% Check raise. They are all asian!

Who was the player?

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

johnny b.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

Smells like TT,99 or AK. Dont think AQ with the turn call. K on river, I would c/r for sure. He might bluff alot of Kings on the river where as a q on the river it is not a very bluffable card for the villian.

I bet.

I also think 4 bet preflop out of positon is a must.

Re: i just felt like posting a hand
 

think about how much fun this would have been had you 4bet preflop, checked the flop blind, and then taken the same postflop line.

!
 

"Oceans 40- 90% Bet out. People that play that game are way to passive on the river, they are constantly missing bets on the river."

agreed!