Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

Villian in hand is Jovial Gent. My image is relatively tight, as is his. He tanked about 10 seconds then checked the turn.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t3140)
MP2 (t2505)
Hero (t3050)
CO (t3425)
Button (t3775)
SB (t4850)
BB (t2075)
UTG (t6135)
UTG+1 (t2940)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t225, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds.

Flop: (t575) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t350</font>, Button calls t350.

Turn: (t1275) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (t1275) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1000</font>

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

I don't find JG to be a nit in general, and I would rather bet the turn than bet check bet, you get more credit that way imo. Here you certainly fold out better hands a decent % of the time, but I feel like people always look me up in this spot so I've kinda stopped doin it u kno

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

i don't know if i would bluff, but i think if its better than checking, then a turn bet has to be even better.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

I think you'll get a call out of people inclined to call, a fold out of people inclined to fold. Your line could be anything -- overpair, boat, 2 overcards. You slowed down when you got called on a paired board, then sped up when the third 5 came, making a 5 in Villain's hand much less likely.

Go Tribe.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

meh after he tanks turn i think theres a good chance you get looked up. But Hes a v good and can fold 99 here, unlike most randoms. so basically im on the fence.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

i bet 375-400 on flop, but other than that it's good assuming his flatting/3betting freq with TT pf is what i figure

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

??? this is the worst river possible to bluff. what better hand is going to fold besides 44 and maybe 77?

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x

[/ QUOTE ]

agree for the most part, except i think we're a bit too deep. if we had 2500 pf i'd shove riv

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x

[/ QUOTE ]

1600 works, no?

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

I just don't see him folding a lot of pairs here. Do not like.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x

[/ QUOTE ]

1600 works, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

gotta put a man in decision for all his chips

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
overbet shove allin, and he will fold everything except 666 and 5x

[/ QUOTE ]

1600 works, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

I don't advise it, but I think shoving is the only way you'll get him to fold a better hand.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

I don't consider myself qualified enough to offer advice here, so I just have a question.


Is this a situation that the zeebo theorem applies to?

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

This is all about levels. Against a very sophisticated player who thinks you're a nit this a sweet move because you can't possibly be bluffing once you gave up on the turn. Unfortunately for you I can count on my fingers the number of players I'd be willing to try this against, and basically none of them are donkament players. A tournament player is unlikely to think any higher than well he didn't bet the turn so he can't have a big pair therefore my 99 is good. Overbet is better but I still don't really like it.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

I think an overbet is getting called by a wider range of hands than the bet OP made. Combined with a turn check/check, an overbet looks like a bluff. Why would you overbet for value into someone who has shown no strength?
Yeah, I know you can think about the levels forever, but in general overbets get less respect than bets that look like value bets, and in this specific situation I would not expect an overbet value bet into someone who checked behind on the turn.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think an overbet is getting called by a wider range of hands than the bet OP made. Combined with a turn check/check, an overbet looks like a bluff. Why would you overbet for value into someone who has shown no strength?
Yeah, I know you can think about the levels forever, but in general overbets get less respect than bets that look like value bets, and in this specific situation I would not expect an overbet value bet into someone who checked behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't personally think this is true at all. And I think that on the most basic level, calling with 99 becomes a lot easier when you realise that you only need to be good approx 30% of the time to profit on the call.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

i think in no way is jovial gent a nit and that this doesn't work enough against him

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

This never works.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

check and build your image rather than risk

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

i think u get looked up pretty light here too i dont think he folds much of his range.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
check and build your image rather than risk

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

im with the majority here, i think this is a pretty bad spew, i see him having 77-jj a huge majority of the time here and i dont see him folding those hands nearly often enough to make this profitable.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

Oh well, he folded. He told me on AIM later he was too embarrassed to tell me what he really had, so in my head I still like the bet.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

Get in touch with the Zeebo theorem.


This bluff is spew.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

Well I suck, but if I have anything better than 55544 on the river I'm looking you. All leveling considerations aside, your bet/check/near pot line on that board represents a bluff often enough for me to look you up.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well I suck, but if I have anything better than 55544 on the river I'm looking you. All leveling considerations aside, your bet/check/near pot line on that board represents a bluff often enough for me to look you up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, my turn check includes a failed c/rai range that should also be very possible given my preflop utg limp isolation raise. Obviously I wouldn't try this against any cash game player/2+2er. I just think I have a big enough hand here in the long run to make the bluff profitable. I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

jovial gent is a cash game player now fyi.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, he folded. He told me on AIM later he was too embarrassed to tell me what he really had, so in my head I still like the bet.

[/ QUOTE ] too embarrassed because he folded a better hand, or too embarrassed because he called your preflop and flop bet with nothing?

On the river: you are rarely folding out a better hand. you are rarely getting a worse hand to call. you are probably ahead. a check/call seems in order.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked.

[/ QUOTE ] but a bluff should represent something. what hand(s) are you trying to represent here?

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

blanked stackadonk

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make a lot of 5/6 pot valuebets on the river early/deepstacked.

[/ QUOTE ] but a bluff should represent something. what hand(s) are you trying to represent here?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol?

ummm this is a totally standard line with JJ+

randal is actually good at poker. you think he's going to start bluffing known winning players the same way a 3r player would?

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

Well yes, he is. His reasnoning is just a lot more sophisticated.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well yes, he is. His reasnoning is just a lot more sophisticated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're implying that I also put my pants on in the morning the same way a dirty 3r player does, I may have to challenge you to fisticuffs.

Re: Stars $1k bluff, kind of spewy but against a nit, thoughts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
??? this is the worst river possible to bluff. what better hand is going to fold besides 44 and maybe 77?

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