Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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What was your plan if you didn't flop huge?

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i think this is potentially a more interesting question. it's not a set, but it's a flop that puts your 6's in the lead.

you calling preflop purely for set/stack value? anything else, i have to think, is a clear clear c/f, correct?

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given

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I'm 95% certain that villian either has JJ+ or AK.

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then ya

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

obviously i'm calling only for set value but getting a flop like this was exactly part of the gameplan.

What do you guys think about his bet size? Don't you think he'd bet 800ish with AK instead a full pot? Bad players don't pot with AK. Speaking of his bet size...

Here's a hand villian spewed. He only bet 1/2 pot with his 4's here...

he raises button or co to 175, sb repops, he calls. He has 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop is 48Jccx (post is ~1200). sb checks, he bets 650, sb c/r's to 2100. He thinks and shoves for 1900 or so more. Sb calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and a pair of 4's scoops.


(this is online btw, not live)

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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obviously i'm calling only for set value but getting a flop like this was exactly part of the gameplan.

What do you guys think about his bet size? Don't you think he'd bet 800ish with AK instead a full pot? Bad players don't pot with AK. Speaking of his bet size...

Here's a hand villian spewed. He only bet 1/2 pot with his 4's here...

he raises button or co to 175, sb repops, he calls. He has 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop is 48Jccx (post is ~1200). sb checks, he bets 650, sb c/r's to 2100. He thinks and shoves for 1900 or so more. Sb calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and a pair of 4's scoops.


(this is online btw, not live)

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OMG, I'm such a newb. The whole time I was thinking this is 10/20 NL. Considering stacks are 120 bbs, it's an easy check-shove.

Even if we lower his ratio of AK to JJ+ from 2 out of 5 times to 1 out of 4 times [which is generous], this is still an easy check-shove.

As for the example you just gave, it's different because in this one, he didn't have the lead on pre-flop so on the flop, he bets to "see where he is at." On the hand versus you, he has the lead and will be more likely go berserko.

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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I'm 95% certain that villian either has JJ+ or AK.

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this makes calling preflop horrible. just check/shove now. he'll probably b/c his entire range and just getting it in here is better than any of the alternatives.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

39,600 games 0.016 secs 2,475,000 games/sec

Board: 5c 4d 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.965% 54.16% 00.81% 21447 319.00 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 45.035% 44.23% 00.81% 17515 319.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


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What was your plan if you didn't flop huge?

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Actually, it makes calling preflop exceptionally profitable. I can't believe this concept is lost on you.

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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Board: 5c 4d 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.965% 54.16% 00.81% 21447 319.00 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 45.035% 44.23% 00.81% 17515 319.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }



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jesus i had no idea that 66 would be a favorite over that range. i thought it'd be like 70-30 against us.

i should probably play around with pokerstove or something sometimes.

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

i can't believe im the first one to say this but c/r to something like 2700. all in sucks, AK folds and the overpairs will always call

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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Board: 5c 4d 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.965% 54.16% 00.81% 21447 319.00 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 45.035% 44.23% 00.81% 17515 319.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }



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jesus i had no idea that 66 would be a favorite over that range. i thought it'd be like 70-30 against us.

i should probably play around with pokerstove or something sometimes.

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Well, it's mostly because theres so many more AK possibilities, but still, if I'm 95% sure of these hands, I dunno about pushing, since AK may not be calling another 4500 with just the perceived gut and overs. Obv, that goes MORE towards the check/shove since you win without showdown, but the hands that DO call you almost every time have you in kinda bad shape


Board: 5c 4d 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.687% 37.88% 00.81% 9000 192.00 { 6d6h }
Hand 1: 61.313% 60.51% 00.81% 14376 192.00 { JJ+ }



Obviously, you could work some frequency distribution to figure this all out better, but while in a vacuum I think this is a pretty =EV, high variance play, for metagame purposes and such I probably check/shove this a good % of the time.


FWIW, I can't see how he has JJ+, AK 95% of the time. I'm about the biggest nit there is and my PFRR/PSB range isn't CLOSE to this narrow. "Spewtards" could show up here with hands that have you worse off that 37/63.

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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i can't believe im the first one to say this but c/r to something like 2700. all in sucks, AK folds and the overpairs will always call

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disagree, i think AK is more likely to call a shove than to shove over or call a raise to 2700.

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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i can't believe im the first one to say this but c/r to something like 2700. all in sucks, AK folds and the overpairs will always call

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disagree, i think AK is more likely to call a shove than to shove over or call a raise to 2700.

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aren't you guys agreeing?

Re: pair + draw vs spewtard
 

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i can't believe im the first one to say this but c/r to something like 2700. all in sucks, AK folds and the overpairs will always call

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didnt u see the pokerstove? who cares? not like a smaller raise has less or more FE against his range. and i think he's more likely to continue with Ak if we shove, but again, doesnt really matter.