Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

leader,

i'm pretty sure the reason strat mods don't post here has nothing to do with the tone. they just don't care, they figure the forum doesn't really concern them as there are generally v little controversial or tough mod decisions to make in strat forums.

also disagree that you can't hate just someone because you think they are dumb.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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If you guys don't want to make the final decisions then you should put someone in charge in addition to you guys like citanul to make the decisions who will.

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I'm not talking about not wanting or being able to make decisions. I'm mostly referring to how we get there. Putting someone else in charge won't change how people tend to deal with each other in here. We don't really control that directly, nor should we. Even if we tried to restrict language and such it's still going to come out.

I had a further thought about my idea at lunch, and it may not work for a couple reasons besides sounding stupid. It could just end up creating a new layer of drama instead of helping anything really.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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It could just end up creating a new layer of drama instead of helping anything really.

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I do think this is the most likely end result.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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leader,

i'm pretty sure the reason strat mods don't post here has nothing to do with the tone. they just don't care, they figure the forum doesn't really concern them as there are generally v little controversial or tough mod decisions to make in strat forums.

also disagree that you can't hate just someone because you think they are dumb.

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I think this is right. A lot of these things just don't matter. I think conflict arises with the other topics mods because those forums are closely related.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

nick,

genius

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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leader,

i'm pretty sure the reason strat mods don't post here has nothing to do with the tone. they just don't care, they figure the forum doesn't really concern them as there are generally v little controversial or tough mod decisions to make in strat forums.

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I'm sure this is true to an extent, maybe to a very large extent, but it seems to me that this forum would better serve 2+2 if it was, to a larger degree, focused on making things better (structurally) rather then just weather a poster should be banned or what kind of locations show/shouldn't be allowed. If this is true, then it seems vital to bring strat mods in, and to do this there needs to be an environment that is conducive to consensus.

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also disagree that you can't hate just someone because you think they are dumb.

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Well, it was a generalization. I'm sure there are exceptions. You would have to admit that though that you tend to forgive much more in friendly people then otherwise.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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There's no sense of purpose or no initiative to solve cross forum issues. A voting system isn't going to fix this. The Reds need to moderate the tone. If you don't want a hostile environment, then don't let people call each other [censored] and bitches and [censored] or endlessly troll each other. In the end, things aren't getting solved because a lot of mods can't stand each other. A lot of that has to do with what is said here. You don't solve problems with people you hate. You don't hate people who are respectful and civilized no matter how dumb you think their ideas are. If you want to solve problems, create an environment where consensus can be built.

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I agree with Leader on these statements. I think we should act more civil and treat each other with respect. We are all volunteers trying to make twoplustwo a better place. I have been in many volunteer situations and have never seen people 'at each others throat' like we experience here. Ofter we get bogged down with name calling and personal insults/vendettas. I think this also keeps a few of the mods from adding their viewpoints. Rather than face the prospect of being insulted they just 'clam up' and keep their opinions to themselves.

I think when major disagreements are occurring the admins could provide us with guidance on their vision for twoplustwo. I realize this can be difficult as the poker boom has caused us exponential growth and a very dynamic environment. I think at least for awhile admins could direct us on 'across forum issues' like avators, user names and locations. We could present those here and the admins could furnish their opinions. We could still ban obvious infractions like horse porn, profanity, etc. This would provide us with Ryan and Mat's insight on how things should be handled and 'where the gray areas are'.

We could also possibly have admins approve bans longer than 48 hours on established posters. An 'established poster' would have to be defined and could be something like account created more than one year and over 200 posts. This would also entice admins to look at some of the problematic posters and possibly ban them for good. Some of these posters are 'always pushing the limits to seek attention' and cause many of our problems. I realize these steps would take some time for Ryan and Mat but it would help us see their thought process on how the forums should be modded.

With the growth of these forums I think it is a very difficult situation. We have over 100 diverse moderators and really only two active admins. The forums have also expanded from 'poker strategy only' to many diverse forums. Mat and Ryan do a great job and I do not envy their position at all.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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Ofter we get bogged down with name calling and personal insults/vendettas. I think this also keeps a few of the mods from adding their viewpoints. Rather than face the prospect of being insulted they just 'clam up' and keep their opinions to themselves.

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This describes me. I rarely give my opinion in here anymore for this reason.

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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i want nick b to weigh in here.

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Mat, I personally believe that the reason that the us american mods don't have votes, is because they just don't have them. I believe the US Mods should take after the south african and the iraq mods and everywhere such as, and the education should be brought over here to help the us mods.

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lmao

Re: idea about resolving disputes
 

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The tone in this forum is worse then any other forum. There's no sense of community or working together to get things done. There's no sense of purpose or no initiative to solve cross forum issues.

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This is a gross exaggeration. Plenty of threads in here provide examples of mods working together, asking questions, getting good responses, and taking swift effective action.

I'm surprised that you would make such a hyperbolic statement like this, Leader, and I'm surprised that Jim Kuhn agrees with it. Clearly Politics, Sports (at many times), BBV, and OOT have a worse tone than Mod Discussion, and there is most definitely a sense of community here. The fact that we disagree over some things isn't evidence of a lack of community. It's evidence of a lack of sheep-like groupthink.