Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
FTP fails again, assuming sillysal is being straight with us. If FTP has really seized her money, and has not told her ANYTHING about the reason why, then this is simply unacceptable and I'll never understand how people can see it any other way.
.
.
Blah
Blah
Blah
.
.
Edit to add: If FT HAS given sillysal some explanation, then obviously they are changing their ways, and much of what I've said above is rendered irrelevant. I might be jumping the gun, but given what we've seen in the past, I'm sorry to say that I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is part of my post from earlier I'm quoting. Obviously it would seem I did jump the gun, FT did actually finally tell sillysal the reason her funds were being seized. Although I was careful to qualify my comments with the fact that we didn't know if they had told her, I apologize to FT for partially jumping to this conclusion.

I still think there should be a way for sillysal (or anyone else in a similar situation) to appeal this. It will be interesting to see where this leads, if anywhere.

Mr. Gatorade must not have heard the news yet in his (anti) botcave...

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although i do feel sorry for sillysal if she is innocent, and only she truly knows...

I would tend to think that when Full Tilt closes an account and seizes funds they are very sure their was behavior that went against their tos. Also, the way they handled this does not seem unreasonable. The only thing i feel is wrong is that they should have some sort of phone communication and atleast release what they are accusing you of.

I can't believe how quick some of you are to bash fulltilt and assume they are falsely accusing sal and she is 100 percent innocent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost every major site has been proven to make a mistake in the confiscation of funds on at least one occasion. To trust a site to be 100% correct on all their decisions without data to back this up is naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Offcourse it is 100 precent impossible to be sure of anything like this. That is why matters like this go to a jury and evidence is reviewed and a reasonable conclusion is reached.

I honestly don't think that fulltilt cares that much about seizing an extra 50k for personal benifit, they make enough money. I think the reason most people on this site feel that stuff like this always happening is because most of the time people post this stuff they are usually guilty and are just trying to get it on 2+2 and reach out for sympathy to help their case.

Cases like this which get resolved and accusations proven to be false just don't get as much attention, nor are they posted. The majority of post simliar to this are usually from newley registered users who obviously just trying to get a mob backing them in hopes that it will influence the pokersite accusing them of fradulent behavior.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone - Who datamines and collects the HH's of the games at FT? and specifically the games that pokergirlz plays in (not sure of the exact spelling of her online handle)?

Can we collect some of these HH's and see if there is anything unusual or eye-catching in the stats?
Who has played with this player and who has data on her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know gehrig datamines those games (or used to) so he should have plenty of hands.

A question for MrGatorade...did you believe pokergirl z was botting? If so, why didn't you list her on your site?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
But damn, if they did this to me and I was innocent, I would file suit against them in the State of Virginia, and trust me, the Virginia courts would excercise long arm jurisdiction over them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obtaining service would be fun, as would trying to execute any judgment. Other than that, suing them would be a great idea.

The UIGEA really distorts the market, and the nature of the offshore sites we deal with, by forcing the public companies, like Party Poker, out of the U.S. market, and only the shadowy ones step up to the plate.

I realize this is preaching to the choir, but if we had legalization, and legal sites with registered agents subject to our jurisdiction, the market could work. People with a meaningful choice would be more likely to insist on good customer service, phone numbers, and protection against arbitrary seizure of funds. If the free market alone didn't result in this, then perhaps a pack of hungry trial lawyers could. . .

Cheers, Carl.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

i play on full tilt every day... I make my living from full tilt.. and I'm very concerned about these situations. I play heads up a lot and it worries me if someone says to full tilt I'm cheating, am I going to lose all my $ with no recourse?

Why are these situations so secretive?

Personally I think there has to be something done about this, you never see these threads about stars. Yet stars has what, a 3x's bigger player base? I hate playing on stars, hate the software, hate the games for the most part, but I will be moving there until this crap stops... -5k rake/month for full tilt.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Why are you blaming Full Tilt. I am sure they have to be 100% sure about this to take this kind of a radical action as seizing funds is. I say Thank You Full Tilt, because looks like Tilt is pretty much the only site that catches these "advanced" bots, which can beat big games.

You guys should be angry to this sillysal guy, who has taken money many years out of poker community by cheating. Finally she/he got caught. I don´t know how much she/he has made already by cheating from all sites she/he has played, this $47k is probably not even half of it, hopefully at least closet to 20% or something.

I understand that she/he is frustrated that she/he got caught when having pretty large sum in her/his account, and that is why she/he makes a thread to 2+2 to at least spoil sites name, which caught her/him.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

cliff notes?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
cliff notes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Full tilt freezes OPs money saying they have to sherlock holmes her account, almost no communication, goes on for a while, her money gets taken, she claims innocence the whole time.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obtaining service would be fun, as would trying to execute any judgment. Other than that, suing them would be a great idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Service on a foreign company is not that hard, I do believe FTP has facilities in Canada, correct me if wrong. I also believe Canada courts regularly enforce US judgments.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone - Who datamines and collects the HH's of the games at FT? and specifically the games that pokergirlz plays in (not sure of the exact spelling of her online handle)?

I AGREE WITH YOU BOB, please anybody tht has info on me. Im serious. I this can prove my innocene or lack of it , please let go for it.

Can we collect some of these HH's and see if there is anything unusual or eye-catching in the stats?
Who has played with this player and who has data on her?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Does anyone not think its strange for FTPDoug to come here talking about how when people don't get a hold of them such as credit card processors and possible colluders that investigations take longer all the while implying that this is the reason this took so long without communication. Then all of a sudden its case closed shes a bot no explanation except to some irrelevant mod of a message board who was not affected in any way by the situation.

I cannot fathom how a serious money generating business like this can function doing things like this?? Is this the twilight zone or am I dreaming??

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

sillysal - please spell out exactly your online-poker name so that perhaps someone can help with this. pokergirlz or poker_girl_z or whatever it is exactly.

somebody mentioned that perhaps gehrig datamines these games.
Not everyone surfs this forum and he might have no awareness at all about this.
PM gehrig and ask if he can help perhaps?

Not sure if it would be appropriate to post a request in the appropriate forum asking for HH's played against you. I think you play high-stakes limit but mabe it's NL. Anyway, that might be something to think about as well.
If you play high stakes limit then perhaps PM a moderator there such as BicycleKick and see if he thinks it's worth cross-posting your request to that forum.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

So, FTP is the new UB?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

mn-holdem - probably not a relevant point. FTPDoug will be the first to tell you that it's not his department and he was only offering a guess. He supposed it COULD have been about security-check and ID stuff as is the case in some of those account-freezings and obviously did not know the true reason was bot-suspicion.
I don't think he expected to be held to that though since he clearly stated he was not the authority on the issue. He was just offering one possibility that it could be even though he wasn't one to have any information about it.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Would full tilt be willing to send her all the hand histories so she can forward them to folks that could make some kind of sense of them?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

MB- For god's sake, by all means... datamine me......I'd imagine after all the interest in these post's, wou would have already aquired a lot of info regarding me.. no prob.. It's cool. on WSEX--Sillysal FTP Pokergirl z have at it gl and talk ot you soon

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone - Who datamines and collects the HH's of the games at FT? and specifically the games that pokergirlz plays in (not sure of the exact spelling of her online handle)?

Can we collect some of these HH's and see if there is anything unusual or eye-catching in the stats?
Who has played with this player and who has data on her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know gehrig datamines those games (or used to) so he should have plenty of hands.

A question for MrGatorade...did you believe pokergirl z was botting? If so, why didn't you list her on your site?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am fully aware of the OP and the situation at hand here and wish to not comment further in this matter.

-Crazy Mike

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Oh Mike,

please do respond. I need to hear what you have to say about this.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

If you can get an independent third party to review your hard drive Silly Sal (unless there is a magical way around the hard drive bot). We can slow this madness and get the word out on this place. Fulltilt poker- "WHERE THE PROS SCAM YOU" .

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

I am already working on a forensic computer analysis. I'm prepared to post the results.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
MB- For god's sake, by all means... datamine me......I'd imagine after all the interest in these post's, wou would have already aquired a lot of info regarding me.. no prob.. It's cool. on WSEX--Sillysal FTP Pokergirl z have at it gl and talk ot you soon

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't have any info on you except for what is in this thread.
I don't do any datamining so don't count on me for that.
I believe you should be able to obtain some stats or HH's from gehrig or other posters on here as the word gets out.

Would very much like to hear what Crazy Mike has to say.
Kind of strange that he would refuse to comment.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

your name on FT is:
pokergirl z

???

You are allowed to have a space in your name on FT?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am already working on a forensic computer analysis. I'm prepared to post the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

What worries me the most is that, based on your posts, my gut tells me you didn't cheat. I am truly hoping we see info that will exonerate you.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
your name on FT is:
pokergirl z

???


You are allowed to have a space in your name on FT?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes spaces are allowed on FT

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

I think it it strange that I'm the only person siding with Full Tilt here.

Of course I wish they would post why this has happened, but I feel like it is very unlikely that they're "stealing" money from sillysal.

This thread definitely had me laughing at all the mini-lawyers.

Also, FTPdoug posted that they replied to all of the emails within 24 hours and just didn't have any new information for sillysal. How is that not good enough of an explanation?

And to sillysal:

Sorry if any of this sounded insensitive. I have nothing against you and hope you didn't wrongfully lose your $$.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

It seems like these things happen with chicks more often than they should. Where is she from?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Ok, Some of you may relate here. You purchase and study all the poker books ever wrote, You purchase and use all the latest Wilson software, you spend hours honing your game, reading thread after thread on two plus two, you spend thousands of hours utilizing this knowlage to build a bankroll, only to have it stolen from you. this is a nightmare scenario that can happen and has happened to many poker players. I hope we can get to the bottom of this, just to help protect all the blood sweat and tears if Silly and others have been scammed by this.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
MB- For god's sake, by all means... datamine me......I'd imagine after all the interest in these post's, wou would have already aquired a lot of info regarding me.. no prob.. It's cool. on WSEX--Sillysal FTP Pokergirl z have at it gl and talk ot you soon

[/ QUOTE ]

Sal, do you not have your HHs stored? It would make more sense for you to provide them directly than to call out for dataminers.

If you do not have your HHs, I can't imagine a scenario that would prevent FT from providing them to you in full. If they were to refuse this request it would look very very bad on their part.

Edit: Also, we need to ensure that FT is distributing this money to the players that they feel were wronged. There's no way that the proceeds from this confiscation should just be added to FT's coffers.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Sal. You have alot of support here but I think you need to show us something soon.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Ok I am a little confused here....

I remember FTPSean saying that these investigations took so long because of having to wait on external compianes to return information etc, but if Sal has been accused of using software that is against the FTP TOS what the hell took so long to convict him/her??

Why did it take over 3 weeks when they should have had all that information directly to hand?

Something doesn't add up here.

Sal, I am with the personal belief you are inncocent here and this is just another balls-up by the FTP security department. How anyone can now leave large sums of money on that site is beyond me.

Once again FTP act as Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Uh Silly Sal. hello Silly Sal. Send us some evidence please. Should be on your computer.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
because looks like Tilt is pretty much the only site that catches these "advanced" bots, which can beat big games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Stars catches these bots long before they win significant amount of money so there is no much noise around this. Go to bot forums and ask where they recommend to play.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

This thread is seriously interesting now. Beforehand, I was very understanding of how an investigation could take so long and I had no problem with the freezing of sillysal’s account whilst this was undertaken. Better timescales should have been given by FTP as to the length of time the process was to take but apart from that I had no real problem as you know.

There is now a resolution with FTP confiscating the $47K and redistributing the money to “wronged” players.

In all disputes there can never be 100% certainty otherwise it is not a dispute but fact. Decisions will have to be made on the old “beyond all reasonable doubt” concept and it seems as though FTP is acting in this way.

• Is this right? Yes I think it is.
• Should FTP now have to back up their evidence? Absolutely, IMHO.
• Should sillysal be able to challenge FTP? Absolutely.

What the online poker industry needs is an appeal committee made up of representatives from the sites themselves, some high profile pros and independent bodies such as 2+2, Pocket Fives, etc. In a situation like this, FTP should be compelled to send their evidence to such a committee for an independent review. If FTP’s actions are upheld then the only recourse would be court action on the part of the player.

I think the committee should be paid for by a proportion of the rake that each site takes. This would do a few things:

• Give a certain legitimacy to online poker that may indeed pacify a lot of the people that object to the game.
• Give players a degree of comfort that they can appeal if they feel they have a strong grievance.
• Any site not signing up to be bound by the independent review could be boycotted by players. If players continued to play elsewhere they do so with the knowledge they have no recourse - don’t come crying with unfair complaints.

My take on this matter is that I believe FTP has undertaken a thorough review and that sillysal was guilty of wrongdoing. Without concrete evidence my reasons are:

• Sillysal’s account was obviously flagged for attention to security at FTP for whatever reason.
• Sillysal must have been generating huge volumes of rake and FTP would not want to lose this kind of income for no good reason.
• $47K is a big amount for an individual. It is peanuts to a major site like FTP and the only conclusion I can draw is that they have serious issues surrounding sillysal’s account.
• They are certainly not doing it to gain an extra $47K profit. Probably her rake amount per annum came to more than this.
• With the flak being generated in the direction of FTP here at 2+2 it would have been easy to have said they had investigated and cleared sillysal. They haven’t taken that option.

Could FTP have made an error? Of course. I can only go on what is said on these forums but to me I would have to assume that sillysal is guilty of something.

However, FTP should give sillysal a way of countering any claims against her. Come on FTP stand up and do the right thing. Show us you care about your players and let us know how we can be sure our innocent accounts will not be blocked and our money taken. Although I would sooner trust FTP than an unknown poster there is always the possibility sillysal is on the receiving end of some very bad judgement.

As the old saying goes “justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done”

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

This is posted without my having read a large number of the latest posts.

I have received information from FTP and others.

I hope to be able to read all within the next 4 hours or so.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is posted without my having read a large number of the latest posts.

I have received information from FTP and others.

I hope to be able to read all within the next 4 hours or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for getting on top of this Mike. If sillysal is guilty then she's guilty. But I would be interested in hearing the evidence. I am a relatively successful heads-up player. I use absolutely no software or any aid of any kind other than my mind to play. So this case concerns me for obvious reasons, especially when sillysal comes across as being innocent of any wrongdoing. I base that opinion only on the tone of her posts, which is why I would like to hear the evidence. I hope you can get to the bottom of this.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

The one who said that "you don't have to be afraid if you haven't done nothing wrong" is a complete idiot.

I had a similar problem on partypoker and I have NEVER received any official statement from them after they have froozen my account with over 4k in it. Okay those are only 4 compared to 47k or so, but yet its money isn't it?

I am pretty sure that this guy is innocent because HOW could he has done chip dumping (because that's the most common reason people are banned for) on such high stakes?

And if he is a long time winner and has such a big amount of money in his account he wouldn't risk it all.

You guys need to understand that sites can close your account and you can't do nothing against it.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

I find Mr.Gatorades 'no comment' disturbing, because I get the impression that Sillysal is a new type bot/ uses AI software that cannot yet be detected or determined by CrazyMike, and only after extensive investigation by Fulltilt.

How many more 'sillysal-type cheaters' are out there?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Although I think it is good of FT to pass this info onto Mike, I think there is still a problem. FT could show Mike absolutely anything, they could show him "modified" information to support their case andd make sal look guilty. How does Mike know all the information he gets is genuine? Sal should also be able to see the same information Mike sees so she can confirm or refute the allegations.

I am not sayng this is what will happen, I am saying this is a distinct possibility when the poker site has its reputation to uphold.

This all stinks as far as I am concerned.

Still though, I cannot understand why over 3 weeks for the investigation if this was illegal software use??? This would mean no outside companies needing to be involved and FT should have had all the evidence they needed to hand. Seems fishy.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uh Silly Sal. hello Silly Sal. Send us some evidence please. Should be on your computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI everyone,

I am a real person, I need sleep like you all do. It's 5:45 AM in CA. I woke up after 3 hours sleep to come down and check the posts. I am going to explore and contact every avenue there is to get my money back and prove my innocence.

I will post hand histories, I will contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commision. I have contacted 2 Lawyers, and I have made calls to involve the media. I have contacted the 4 moderators that were on staff at the time I received the letter from FTP.

I will do everything in my power and I will post everything I do to keep you all in the loop. This is a very serious situation. If it happened to me, it can happen to you.

I welcome any solid advice. Please keep in mind, I do need 8-9 hours of sleep and I do have personal obligations that may keep me off this site, but rest assured this is NOT going away. I will try and answer EVERY single legitimate question and provide you all with valid information. Thank you


pokergirl z

(yes there is a space)

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone - Who datamines and collects the HH's of the games at FT? and specifically the games that pokergirlz plays in (not sure of the exact spelling of her online handle)?

Can we collect some of these HH's and see if there is anything unusual or eye-catching in the stats?
Who has played with this player and who has data on her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know gehrig datamines those games (or used to) so he should have plenty of hands.

A question for MrGatorade...did you believe pokergirl z was botting? If so, why didn't you list her on your site?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am fully aware of the OP and the situation at hand here and wish to not comment further in this matter.

-Crazy Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Its REALLY interesting that the person who finds the most bots, even those who arent bots, earlier said of sal:

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever investigation that is going on with her was not initiated by me nor reported by me. Does that answer your question? I only care about bots not people having mulitple accounts. If she is or has used a bot in the past or present then I care.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Crazy Mike said she wasnt a bot, but then we have FTP locking and then confiscating the account for using botting software (im assuming thats what they mean, their wording is a little vague IIRC).

Ill repeat it:

[ QUOTE ]
I am fully aware of the OP and the situation at hand here and wish to not comment further in this matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something does not sit right here - i smell conspiracy but i might be wrong. This wouldnt be the first case where Mike has wrongly accused someone of botting using his 100% guaranteed method (which has failed a few times) and that person had his account reinstated if memory serves me.