150/300 simple preflop
 

8 handed game, villain is a weak player and probably plays 90% of his hands but if he raises preflop in this game he probably has an actual playable hand of some sort.

2 folds, villain raises, I am next to act with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I fold raise or call? i know this seems dumb but a well respected 2+2er disagreed with what to do here and he needs to be convinced that he is apparently retarded at omaha 8.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

Define "playable" please. Does this include stuff like A38J A289 or is he only raising A2KQ A235 AA3T type hands?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

I like a Call > Raise > Fold here.

On a sidenote... PLEASEE TELL ME WHERE THIS GAME IS!

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

probably any a2, any a+2 wheel cards, any AA, probably a bunch of a3, a lot of a4 with any kind of connection going on and then random high hands he wants to play.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

I suck at o8, but I would call with this hand because this is a hand that does well multi-way. Although, I would much prefer if it was not raised, because this hand feels a little bit dry. If I had been running bad recently I might throw it away.

Is suited A2 always playable?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
probably any a2, any a+2 wheel cards, any AA, probably a bunch of a3, a lot of a4 with any kind of connection going on and then random high hands he wants to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think how everyone else plays is a consideration between cold calling and 3betting. If you can shut everyone else out and maybe quarter him, 3betting is a decent idea. This applies for A2Kx type hands too. If a 3bet is just going to result in playing a huge pot from the middle b/c everyone is cold calling 3 behind you, then maybe you should just call and take a flop.

A lot of preflop plays in O8 run really close, IMO.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

huh. i wrote out a reply but i think i erased it while answering a food question. . .


couple things that are more important than equity:

-- players behind you and their reaction to a 3 bet? can you fold them out if they don't hold A23x or somethign like that?


-- is bad player weak post flop and will fold river if he airballs on the low? or is he loose and will go to showdown with anything?

dream scenario would be, 3 bet to isolate. 3/4 him on a low board and pair 7s wins high.

worst case: 3 bet to isolate and get action around the table. peel all the way to the river and make crying call with sevens up.

somewhere in between: call preflop. try to flop a low draw and perhaps a back door clubs or backdoor set of sevens. make others call down with A3 low. keep the pot small so if you get 1/4, 1/6, it's not that bad.

don't fold.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

Agree its totally dependant on how the table is playing

Also curious where the game is?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
because this hand feels a little bit dry.

[/ QUOTE ] nut flush and set value.

[ QUOTE ]
If I had been running bad recently I might throw it away.

[/ QUOTE ] decision making is based on equity and thought process, not your own results of the prior 100 hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Is suited A2 always playable?

[/ QUOTE ] in my regular game, this is the nuts.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

HOWMANY said before this game goes at the Bike.

and does this game typically play like the stereotypical AZN GAMBOOL game that us east coasters can only dream about?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

this game wasn't at the bike

donger: if i 3bet most the people behind me are gonna need something good to come in, they're all fairly tight. they know i'll iso him a little lighter than i would others but we are still playing omaha so it's not like i'm going to go insane getting it hu with 5688r and they aren't going to jump in with horrible crap just to play a pot against the weaker player.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I fold raise or call? i know this seems dumb

[/ QUOTE ]Hi How Many - I don't think it sounds dumb. Despite the ace-deuce and the suited ace (albeit with an extra card in the suit), I don't like this starting hand much. And I generally like raising myself much better than calling a raise. And I don't like my position.

I see the starting hand as mostly a fractional low pot hand, very vulnerable to counterfeiting and quartering. The pair of sevens really stinks and the extra club detracts from the scoop and high potential, which is not great to begin with.

Be nice to know more about possible motives of the pre-flop raiser and how likely he is to also have A2YZ. Be nice to know what the players behind me yet to act will do.

Could I get it heads-up against the pre-flop raiser by making it a triple bet? Be nice to know.

With all this unknown, it's hard to know what to do.

All the above written, I probably call, mainly for table image purposes, but I'm not convinced calling is a very good play.

Buzz

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

I always call.. cuz that's my fav hand.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

yeah, I def don't like raising. Folding seems best, but I'm likely to just call. I would love to know how the people behind me play.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

how does this guy play after the flop? isnt that much more important than what to do preflop?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

Clear value call. 3 betting is dangerous as it diminishes the value of the fd (which would prefer multiway) and promotes the value of the pair (which isn't great, and might end up tempting.)

gl

bdd

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

"I see the starting hand as mostly a fractional low pot hand, very vulnerable to counterfeiting and quartering. The pair of sevens really stinks and the extra club detracts from the scoop and high potential, which is not great to begin with."

sound familiar sean?

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I see the starting hand as mostly a fractional low pot hand, very vulnerable to counterfeiting and quartering. The pair of sevens really stinks and the extra club detracts from the scoop and high potential, which is not great to begin with."

sound familiar sean?

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

Please PM me where this game is.

PLZZZZZ

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I see the starting hand as mostly a fractional low pot hand, very vulnerable to counterfeiting and quartering. The pair of sevens really stinks and the extra club detracts from the scoop and high potential, which is not great to begin with."

sound familiar sean?

[/ QUOTE ]

mike I,

i'm interpreting this to be that you should be playing only nut hands preflop (4 working cards) in this game from what i'm assuming to be middle position.


our 3 options:

fold: for reasons given above. this is not one of my choices without knowing how tight this game is playing. since all we know is villain's raising range is playable and not iron-fist, i'll keep playing having position.

call: the cons of this is a good player sees you calling the worst player's raise and will call behind near the button. he'll then play perfect poker while you get whipsawwed. the pros is it's cheap, you flop big and let yourself get whippsawed.


raise: this largely depends on villains 4 betting tendencies. in a four bet max game, this sucks cuz you're getting capped playing HU most of the time,without the lead, and chopping for freaking 1.5 BB.

but i'm pretty sure you play out west where it's five bets max. so villain might slow down preflop cuz he's giving up the lead and he'll be OOP. so 3 bets preflop w/position gives you the opportunity to outplay him aka maximizing wins/ minimizing losses.

my point is, your hand isn't the nuts and it's got problems, but you still got options to work with and you should probably take a flop.

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

Hi Howzit - I'm the one who wrote[ QUOTE ]
I see the starting hand as mostly a fractional low pot hand, very vulnerable to counterfeiting and quartering. The pair of sevens really stinks and the extra club detracts from the scoop and high potential, which is not great to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then I also wrote two more paragraphs and then:[ QUOTE ]
With all this unknown, it's hard to know what to do.

All the above written, I probably call, mainly for table image purposes, but I'm not convinced calling is a very good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wrote:[ QUOTE ]
i'm interpreting this to be that you should be playing only nut hands preflop (4 working cards) in this game from what i'm assuming to be middle position.

[/ QUOTE ]In so doing, you're putting your own opinion in place of what I wrote and what I meant. You can do that, if you like, and maybe you're more correct than I am.

But that's not what I wrote and not what I meant.

Reminds me of that Woody Allen movie Annie Hall, where somebody in line ahead of the main characters is interpreting Marshall McCluin (sp?) and Marshall himself steps into the conversation.

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Buzz

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please PM me where this game is.

PLZZZZZ

[/ QUOTE ]

in the basement

password: nutlow

Re: 150/300 simple preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please PM me where this game is.

PLZZZZZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Shambambam is a nit, don't let nits ruin another game.