88
 

BB is 26/4/2.7 AF
So he's pretty aggressive and i've seen him overplay hands and making some moves wiht draws, but im not sure if he'd donk into 4 people with something i beat.

SB is somewhat loose and mp2 is unknown.

Im sort of tempted to raise this flop, but not sure if it's a good idea.

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero...

Re: 88
 

i raise for sure

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
i raise for sure

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Re: 88
 

surely you werent thinking of just calling [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 88
 

Raise &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
surely you werent thinking of just calling [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

What gave you that idea ? :P

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

[/ QUOTE ]
If the pot was smaller (not raised preflop) then we have a stronger argument for:

Fold &gt; Raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

[/ QUOTE ]
If the pot was smaller (not raised preflop) then we have a stronger argument for:

Fold &gt; Raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

[/ QUOTE ]

If the SB wasn't still in the hand I think we'd have a stronger argument for

Call &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fold

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: 88
 

I assume it's 4 to the flop.

Raise, but I'd fold if played back at.

Re: 88
 

Funny, I was just chatting with DM about this very subject: what's with the pfr?

And, definitely raise the flop against an aggressive player on your immediate right to try and thin the field. If he 3bets, or anybody cold-calls, start looking for a turn fold UI.

Re: 88
 

Boz, I think the converter screwed up or somehting, it was 7 handed. Basically im mp1. The table was certainly on the tighter side so i went for it.

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise &gt; Fold &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

[/ QUOTE ]
If the pot was smaller (not raised preflop) then we have a stronger argument for:

Fold &gt; Raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Call

[/ QUOTE ]

If the SB wasn't still in the hand I think we'd have a stronger argument for

Call &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Fold

[/ QUOTE ]

if instead of poker we're talking about a choice between getting your laundry out of the dryer, speaking with your deaf grandma on the telephone, or erecting a barn with your amish neighbors:

fold &gt; call &gt; raise

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
erecting a barn with your amish neighbors

[/ QUOTE ]

"'Tis a fine barn, English, but certainly 'tis no pool"

"D'oheth!"

Riku, might wanna double-check your coversions before submitting, avoids confusions like this since I can't really tell whether the coverter screwed up preflop action or just counting the players. 7/8-handed is the bubble; 6-max it's a raise; 9/10-handed it's a limp.

nh

Re: 88
 

boz, a raise is fine even at fr

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
boz, a raise is fine even at fr

[/ QUOTE ]

babar, no, it's not

Re: 88
 

okay, let me clarify: i raised it utg at fr for the last year and a half or so of online fr grinding (a good part of which was 1/2) and it was +ev for me. i agree it's marginal if you don't play well postflop; same as raising kqo or kjs or ato or ats utg. in that case just folding it is fine.

Re: 88
 

a data point which i'm sure will be tremendously helpful: i limp/raise 88 utg about 50/50 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. adjusting to table conditions ftw.

Re: 88
 

tyler, i don't disagree that it's read-based, it just strikes me as odd sometimes that people who don't really play in these games that often or at all have these super strongly held convictions about the textures of those games. i haven't been playing in many games online where a limp utg can be gotten away with, i guess. so i was just trying to point out that i had experience in the game op was making reference to. i think raise &gt; fold &gt; call imo.

Re: 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
okay, let me clarify: i raised it utg at fr for the last year and a half or so of online fr grinding (a good part of which was 1/2) and it was +ev for me. i agree it's marginal if you don't play well postflop; same as raising kqo or kjs or ato or ats utg. in that case just folding it is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about folding?

While I agree that 1/2 is generally tighter than other micro limits, making playing mid-pairs for set value not necessarily the best play, I think you need to actually have the table-read that a UTG raise will likely take you to the flop HU (or at worst 3-handed) before you make that raise. Against unknowns, I'm more likely to limp.

But, we've been through this enough. 77-99 are hard to play in EP. As you point out, the level of your postflop play is what should actually dictate your line.

Edit: Babar, I've played a ton of fr 1/2, never at FT, but at Intertops, Stars, PP, yada yada, and I don't understand what you mean by not being able to "get away" with a UTG limp in that game.

Re: 88
 

boz, yea definitely, it's one of those marginal spots where the intensity of the debate often outweighs the really marginal difference that the plays actually make. but, we've been seeing that for a long time in micros [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]