Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

I still haven't gotten an overbet called. I guess that means I should use it as a bluff more?

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

A good example imo. His range is pretty much mid PPs, straight draws and Kx. I doubt he calls any river bet anyway with a PP given the board and he obviously is folding busted straight draws. Since he didnt lead the river that leads me to think his hand is meh and hes looking for a cheap showdown and makes Kx his most likely holding. Since were splitting with Kx an overbet here is a good way to push him off it and let me win the pot outright

Poker Stars, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $434.10
SB: $431
BB: $570.50
UTG: $400
UTG+1: $416
UTG+2: $237
Hero (MP1): $408
MP2: $94
CO: $509.60

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP1)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16</font>, 4 folds, BB calls $12

Flop: ($34) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, BB calls $24

Turn: ($82) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($82) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $98</font>, BB folds

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

a question concerning overbets: assuming i flop a big draw like overs+ flushdraw or better am in position and one guy bets into me, is a open push the best move here? I've seen this a couple of times and wonder if it's the best solution.

oh yeah, i obviously don't mean pushing 100bb into a 5bb pot or something, more like into a 20bb pot for example.

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A good example imo. His range is pretty much mid PPs, straight draws and Kx. I doubt he calls any river bet anyway with a PP given the board and he obviously is folding busted straight draws. Since he didnt lead the river that leads me to think his hand is meh and hes looking for a cheap showdown and makes Kx his most likely holding. Since were splitting with Kx an overbet here is a good way to push him off it and let me win the pot outright

River: ($82) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $98</font>, BB folds

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good example of the overbet to avoid a split, but that's a pretty specific applicatio. What I wonder here is how much the extra $16 mattered? That is, he may also have folded to $25 or $50 or $75. The key variables that I don't see being discussed much are

* What % of the time do what dollar amounts get called by worse hands?

* What % of the time do what dollar amounts get called by better hands?

If we have estimates of those, we can actually solve the EV question of the bet size.

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
a question concerning overbets: assuming i flop a big draw like overs+ flushdraw or better am in position and one guy bets into me, is a open push the best move here? I've seen this a couple of times and wonder if it's the best solution.

oh yeah, i obviously don't mean pushing 100bb into a 5bb pot or something, more like into a 20bb pot for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's generally opponent-specific. It's definitely more +EV against your better "thinking" opponents.

Whereas against your typical muppet of a calling station who has top pair/sh.1t kicker you're often better off just calling down and hoping to hit, because your fold equity is far smaller- but you'll still get paid off if you make your hand.

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A good example imo. His range is pretty much mid PPs, straight draws and Kx. I doubt he calls any river bet anyway with a PP given the board and he obviously is folding busted straight draws. Since he didnt lead the river that leads me to think his hand is meh and hes looking for a cheap showdown and makes Kx his most likely holding. Since were splitting with Kx an overbet here is a good way to push him off it and let me win the pot outright

Poker Stars, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $434.10
SB: $431
BB: $570.50
UTG: $400
UTG+1: $416
UTG+2: $237
Hero (MP1): $408
MP2: $94
CO: $509.60

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP1)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16</font>, 4 folds, BB calls $12

Flop: ($34) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, BB calls $24

Turn: ($82) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($82) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $98</font>, BB folds

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this against me?

Also this thread is a great example of why we need a forum split.

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

no it wasnt against you

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

grunching LDO

over bet with draws when it is profitable, usually on the flop.

over bet turns with stack a donk lines if the player will call withless often

I used to overbet shove river as bluffs against guys like pokerboy cause they like would not call with out set(which they pretty much wouldnt chk to me). once they "adjust" theyll basically call with any old [censored] ing thing in which made value betting super fun for a while until they decide to let me bluffown them again =)


you can also semi bluff over bet the turn but its often better not to since yous usually need a [censored] more fold equity. I do use that often in heads up games and somtimes in 6 max. hardly ever in full ring games.

Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
 

too easy, would you mind posting some of your thoughts oon overbetting? where you use it/boards/opponents?