What defines an angleshoot?
 

I was trying to explain angleshooting to someone unfamiliar with poker, and wasn't sure the best way to distinguish where behaving deceptively at the table became unethical.

Among players it is obvious to most that taking a little bit of extra time or acting indecisive when you know immediately what your play will be is part of the game, but tricking someone into folding the winner by for instance intentionally declaring your hand incorrectly is problematic.

What is the defining characteristic of a deceptive behavior at the poker table that makes it unethical?

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

The most major form of angleshoots are often attempts to cause the best hand to lose by methods other than betting or normal table talk. Over calling hands and getting very technical with how best hand was tabled are types of angleshoots. Additionally if your action is meant to confuse players in order to get an unfair advantage, like delaying your action to see if someone after you might act out of turn to aid you in your decision is an angleshoot.
Beyond basic poker strategy and table talk, an angleshoot falls under the Golden Rule (apology if not quoted correctly): Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

In a poker game one is expected to try to decieve one's opponent as to the strength of his hand at the time of betting.

Angle shooting involves deciveing one's opponent as to an issue which the opponent is not supposed to be deceived on, or at a time where deception is not supposed to occur.

So hiding chips to deceive an opponent as to how much you have available is deceiving them on an issue on which they are not supposed to be deceived.

Throwing your call next to the chips your neighbor used to call is an attempt to deceive your other opponents into thinking there has been a raise, but what the action actually is, is not an issue which is supposed to be a topic of deception..

covering your cards to deceive your opponent into believing that you have folded is again deception as to what the action is and is not a proper subject of deception.

Deliberately misdeclaring your hand AT SHOWDOWN is angleshooting, because though you are supposed to deceive your opponent as to the strength of your hand, you are supposed to do that in the betting stages of the game. Showdwon is point in the game where deception is not suppose dto occur.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

EXCELLENT description, ps.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

OK always wondered if this was an angleshoot or not as I did it once without realising I was doing it but would think of doing it again if not an angleshoot.

Player UTG limped into the pot which I did not notice. It gets folded round to me on the button with KK. I raise both the blinds fold. I have been raising loads at the table so decide I am going to show my hand but before I show my cards I say the following. Look at the rubbish I have been raising your blinds with and then go to show my cards. The dealer says wait there is still a player left in the pot. The player thinks for a while and moved all in with Q 10 I call and win a big pot.

Mark.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK always wondered if this was an angleshoot or not as I did it once without realising I was doing it but would think of doing it again if not an angleshoot.

Player UTG limped into the pot which I did not notice. It gets folded round to me on the button with KK. I raise both the blinds fold. I have been raising loads at the table so decide I am going to show my hand but before I show my cards I say the following. Look at the rubbish I have been raising your blinds with and then go to show my cards. The dealer says wait there is still a player left in the pot. The player thinks for a while and moved all in with Q 10 I call and win a big pot.

Mark.

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By your description this was inadvertent, so not an angle shot, but if you were to do it knowing there was someone left to act, I would consider it an angle shot.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

1. An angle is not against the rules. It is legal.
2. An angle is in the gray area of the rules. It is "pushing the envelope"
3. An angle is against the "spirit and intent of the rules".

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. An angle is not against the rules. It is legal.
2. An angle is in the gray area of the rules. It is "pushing the envelope"
3. An angle is against the "spirit and intent of the rules".

[/ QUOTE ]

4. An angle shoot is an attempt to manipulate the game without explicitly breaking the rules.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

I'd say a decent definition of an angle is doing just about anything at a live table that it would be impossible to do when playing internet poker.

Re: What defines an angleshoot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say a decent definition of an angle is doing just about anything at a live table that it would be impossible to do when playing internet poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does that include winning?