Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

For my philosophy final. From William James:

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Outward goods and evils semm practically indistinguishable except in so far as they result in getting moral judgments made about them. But then the moral judgments seem the main thing, and the outward facts mere perishing instruments for their production. This is subjectivism.

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I've read this a dozen times and feel like I'm just able to scratch the surface.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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For my philosophy final. From William James:

[ QUOTE ]
Outward goods and evils semm practically indistinguishable except in so far as they result in getting moral judgments made about them. But then the moral judgments seem the main thing, and the outward facts mere perishing instruments for their production. This is subjectivism.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read this a dozen times and feel like I'm just able to scratch the surface.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can supply us with an English translation, maybe we can help you.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

Answer 1:

Rooster is capricious and friendly subjectivism eight.

Answer 2:

Subjectivism says answers 1 and 2 differ only in how much you like them.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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For my philosophy final. From William James:

[ QUOTE ]
Outward goods and evils semm practically indistinguishable except in so far as they result in getting moral judgments made about them. But then the moral judgments seem the main thing, and the outward facts mere perishing instruments for their production. This is subjectivism.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read this a dozen times and feel like I'm just able to scratch the surface.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can supply us with an English translation, maybe we can help you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry, this was an excerpt of the reading, I was hoping someone might have recognized it.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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For my philosophy final. From William James:

[ QUOTE ]
Outward goods and evils semm practically indistinguishable except in so far as they result in getting moral judgments made about them. But then the moral judgments seem the main thing, and the outward facts mere perishing instruments for their production. This is subjectivism.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read this a dozen times and feel like I'm just able to scratch the surface.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can supply us with an English translation, maybe we can help you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry, this was an excerpt of the reading, I was hoping someone might have recognized it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not schooled in philosophy...here is my take.

Part of the problem is probably that the process of applying moral judgements is very automatic, so 'outward goods and evils' may seem quite different to you. I don't know how good my examples will be here (i'm sure i can do a lot better), but:

Killing a dog versus slaughtering a pig...is there a real difference here? The biggest difference is how we react. One is a routine part of food production, the other is regarded (in the us) as animal cruelty.

Screwing a 16 year old, screwing a 30 yr old...looks the same to me...one is 'immoral'.

More generally, everyting we do or say is the same kind of thing...we are just acting. Moving limbs, vocal cords, whatever...interacting with the world. Subjectivism divides these actions up based on 'moral' or 'immoral', and says that at since all these actions are physically in the same category, all that is left is our moral judgements about them...

bleh...just a quick and dirty thought...

Edit: Wikipedia seems to say that I missed the point a bit...

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

From wikipedia:
"An extreme version of the idea proposed above (ethical subjectivism) is that nothing is innately good or bad, right or wrong."

I don't see how this can't be true...

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

Morality:
Subjectivism says there are no universal moral principles. So it says there is no good and no evil, as those words already imply that they have a broader meaning outside specific situations.

Reality:
Subjectivism says there is no objective reality. It says reality is completely whimsical to, for instance, our mind. We create our own reality. Other people only exist insofar they exist in our minds.


For a quick and dirty introduction to objectivism, go here:
http://www.whatisobjectivism.com/

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Morality:
Subjectivism says there are no universal moral principles. So it says there is no good and no evil, as those words already imply that they have a broader meaning outside specific situations.

Reality:
Subjectivism says there is no objective reality. It says reality is completely whimsical to, for instance, our mind. We create our own reality. Other people only exist insofar they exist in our minds.


For a quick and dirty introduction to objectivism, go here:
http://www.whatisobjectivism.com/

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And go here for objective morality:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/molyneux7.html

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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Answer 1:

Rooster is capricious and friendly subjectivism eight.

Answer 2:

Subjectivism says answers 1 and 2 differ only in how much you like them.

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QFT

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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From wikipedia:
"An extreme version of the idea proposed above (ethical subjectivism) is that nothing is innately good or bad, right or wrong."

I don't see how this can't be true...

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Yeah, it's funny how one person's "extreme" is another's "well, duh"...

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

I don't post often anymore, but I have a degree in Phil, so I think I can help you.

Subjectivism says that all act tokens (specific instances of agents performing actions) are just that - merely things that happen. The thing that makes them special are that people decide to call them good or evil. But they are not "actually" good or evil. They are merely labeled, by people, as such. Thus, according to subjectivism, no action is good or evil. They merely bear those labels - and the may differ depending on who you ask.

This view is the opposite of objectivism, which says that all actions are objectively good or evil, regardless of what labels people might put on them.

Another way of thinking about this would be to say, let us consider the act token of the agent David Sklansky performing the act of proposing a challenge to theists at time X. According to objectivism, this act is intrinsically either good or evil. It doesn't matter that some people say it is good, and that some people say that it is evil - half are right, and half are wrong (committing an error in moral judgment). Subjectivism would say that the act isn't good or evil - it merely is something that generates moral judgments. But these judgments are only "real" insofar as the judgers believe that they are good or evil. They are not in fact, actually good or evil - that is to say, if there were no entities who were capable of making moral judgments, this act would not be good or evil.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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Outward goods and evils semm practically indistinguishable except in so far as they result in getting moral judgments made about them. But then the moral judgments seem the main thing, and the outward facts mere perishing instruments for their production. This is subjectivism.

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It says that facts or events are not inherently good or bad, but acquire this quality once they're morally judged. The next sentence is tricky, but it means that this is so much so, that the moral judgement itself is what creates good and evil, just that it needs a trigger, the otherwise irrelevant facts or events.

Now, you have to have in mind that morality is something that doesn't make sense objectively speaking, and more importantly, that morality itself is within each individual, and it's different for each of them (however similar). The text then goes one step ahead and says that the effect morality has on your view on facts and events IS subjectiveness. Or if you want to understand it in a different way, it might just be saying that this is an example of subjectiveness. But I'd go with the former, the way the text is put, and without more context at my disposal.

(note that when the text talks of morality, it means how all the possible feelings, emotions and senses an individual can experience create judgement on facts and events as being good or evil)

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

completely forgot about this thread, but thanks a lot guys it really helped me out.

BTW FYI FWIW and other acronyms I slayed the exam.

Re: Can someone explain subjectivism for me?
 

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This view is the opposite of objectivism, which says that all actions are objectively good or evil, regardless of what labels people might put on them.

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]