$10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

no read yet on opponent

comments on all streets, especially preflop welcome. game is playing very aggressively, no shortage of donkeys

PokerStars 10/20 Omaha/8 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

This looks fine to me. You could argue for leading the turn depending on the player. Preflop could go either way. I would probably limp this UTG and backraise if the situation was right (big multiway pot).

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

Preflop seems fine to me. I mean I guess if the game is very aggressive preflop you could limp and then 3-bet, and maybe you would have gotten another caller, but I doubt it would really have made a difference here.
Depending on MP1's preflop 3-betting range, I think you could bet or raise the turn. Since I would normally expect someone to have AAxx, Awwx, or A2PP here (and AAxx is no longer possible on the flop), it just seems more likely that he's betting A23x than A6xx on the flop, and in that case you probably are ahead for high. But I guess since he capped the flop maybe I would have checked as well.

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

Dave - What throws you off here is MP1 capping on the flop. At that point you have to become concerned about the possibility of being up against a flopped full house.

Now it's simply too rash for you to bet the turn. You want to bet this turn, but it's simply too rash. And it's certainly too rash to check/raise.

And then, I suspect you miss a bet on the river. I'm betting you had a winner here and maybe even suspected you did, but hoped Villain would bet it for you. That second pair on the board after aces on the flop, as I'm sure you already know, greatly reduces the chance you're up against a full house.

Assuming I'm correctly assessing the situation, I don't see anything you could have done about it. You're out of position against a clever opponent.

It's no big deal, only a half bet and the loss of initiative due to Villain capping instead of calling your three bet on the second round.

(Or maybe I'm all wet here).

Buzz

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

I'd take a different line preflop most of the time, but it turned out fine for you as played.

I wouldn't slow down on the turn though. I'd either checkraise or lead out, b/c this is A23 a LOT of the time.

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

Raising EP is fine in this game. You're hoping a2xx reraises you. This hand plays really well against one or two opponents. I would have lead the turn as others stated.

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raising EP is fine in this game. You're hoping a2xx reraises you. This hand plays really well against one or two opponents. I would have lead the turn as others stated.

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i'm new to online Limit O8, so I'm trying to figure out some general preflop strategies that work best for me, primarily for $10/$20 and $15/$30 (10-max). I'm familiar with O8 push vs. pull strategies in general, but not many on PokerStars seem to adhere to that plan. I commonly see people opening UTG with AKTTss or any A2 at all.

on another note, i've been opening from the cutoff with solid high hands like QJTTss if I think the blinds are playing even remotely tight. Is this standard, or am I trying to play too fancy?

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

[ QUOTE ]

on another note, i've been opening from the cutoff with solid high hands like QJTTss if I think the blinds are playing even remotely tight. Is this standard, or am I trying to play too fancy?

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I've always wondered how much money one can expect to win on a blind steal with a hand like this.

I'm not talking in terms of hitting a set, flopping straights and so on, but how much money you can expect to win once somebody chooses to defend their blind.

I'd imagine probably not as much as what people think considering that most people will defend with low oriented hands more than high hands. So even when you smack the flop you might not get much out of it on average. Plus you could fall victim to reverse implied odds or make an incorrect fold when you a flop a flush with two low cards, flop a set on a two-toned wheel draw board, and etc.

I'm not debating whether you should be occasionally raising these hands, I'm really just interested in the expectation after one or both of the blinds choose to defend. It's obviously dependant on the opposition, so the only way I can see to really quantify it would be to study a huge sample of hands.

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising EP is fine in this game. You're hoping a2xx reraises you. This hand plays really well against one or two opponents. I would have lead the turn as others stated.

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i'm new to online Limit O8,

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Stick w betting the pot on the flop dave and you won't have these troubles [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: $10/$20 LO8 hand from EP
 

[ QUOTE ]
on another note, i've been opening from the cutoff with solid high hands like QJTTss if I think the blinds are playing even remotely tight. Is this standard, or am I trying to play too fancy?

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Dave - Interesting idea. Has that been working out well for you?

I'm very interested in the specifics. I imagine the way you play hands like this is highly opponent dependent. Is that right?

Do you open with a raise from the cut-off position whether there are limpers or not? If so, does it depend on who the limpers are?

How often does it get around to you in the cut-off where nobody has come in ahead of you?

What do you do on the next betting round when you have not gotten a very good fit with the flop and anybody left in the hand checks to you?

What do you do on the next betting round when you have not gotten a very good fit with the flop and somebody bets into you?

What do you think a good flop fit is with this starting hand? (I imagine that is at least somewhat dependent on how many are in the pot with you).

I have usually been playing hands like this one as cheaply as possible from the cut-off position - in other words playing this hand as pulling hand and wanting customers for the roughly one flop out of four where I think I might have a good or decent flop fit with this hand against multiple opponents. (But it's very rare in my games for nobody to enter the action ahead of me when I'm in the cut-off seat, although I imagine that might change at least somewhat if I usually raised when I entered the action from the cut-off seat).

Buzz