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-   -   PokerRoom refuses to cashout US player (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=551788)

PokerRoom.com 11-29-2007 11:45 AM

Re: PokerRoom refuses to cashout US player
 
Hi,

For legitimate operators that respect US law and by extension the UIGEA there is no clear legal way to administer funds transfers in US dollars to former players. If there were, all of our cash out options would still be available to our former US players.

The fact facing PokerRoom is that even though we chose to respect the UIGEA and closed real money operations to players in the USA any attempts now to move funds to the USA from PokerRoom are now blocked. A blacklist is in effect against all online gaming companies. As part of a publicly traded company we at PokerRoom are of course bound to respect the law presently in effect in all countries. The legal situation in effect in the United States, though regrettable, is a reality that we respect.

We cannot facilitate transactions to the USA legally using any of the options we have available on the PokerRoom site. Hence, one year after we closed operations to real money players from the USA, we have very limited options available to us in helping former players from the USA to get back any funds that remain on their PokerRoom accounts.

I am personally working with the poster to try and resolve the issue he has with trapped funds.

Best Regards
Lee

PokerRoom.com

Skallagrim 11-29-2007 12:26 PM

Re: PokerRoom refuses to cashout US player
 
The above post by Pokerroom contains a lot of BS. I used to play there and liked the site, I never will again.

Any suggestion that they would be breaking a law by sending an american money in their account is completely wrong as far as legality (as opposed to practicality or expense) is concerned.

They may not be able to get a US processor for funds, true.

But look at it this way: I have friends in Denmark. Sometimes we do business for each other. When we owe each other money we write each other checks drawn on our home accounts. I take the check to my US bank and deposit it. It takes forever to clear and there is a currency exchange loss, but it clears.

There is absolutely no legal reason Pokerroom could not do the same. None. Zero.

Skallagrim

CardSharpCook 11-29-2007 02:15 PM

Re: PokerRoom refuses to cashout US player
 
Skall, I agree with you completely. Like many in this forum, I've done my best to keep current with legality issues with our game (and all online "gambling"). I do not understand what law POkerRoom feels they would be breaking. UIGEA does not touch on transfers FROM a poker site. However, I finally got a PM response from the PokerRoom official that posts here, and for the first time, I feel that PokerRoom MIGHT actually be trying to get me my money back. I will keep you all informed.

TruePoker CEO 11-29-2007 03:09 PM

Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
Hi, Lee,

You wrote : "For legitimate operators that respect US law and by extension the UIGEA there is no clear legal way to administer funds transfers in US dollars to former players."

That is complete and utter nonsense. Your ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance in insulting US players and poker companys that serve them.

That short-term charade of a "missed" window of opportunity for US players to get their money back gives lie to your assertion that somehow sending a cashout to a poker player violates US law. If you were permitted to do it then, post-UIGEA, you could do so now.

Only a deadbeat "operator" does not pay players it owes money to. Send the man his money, you should be ashamed of yourself.

You write: "We have very limited options available to us in helping former players from the USA to get back any funds that remain on their PokerRoom accounts."

Write him a check, send him a wire transfer, send him a Western Union or whatever for his cashout. If you need help in figuring out how to do it, ask Western Union or any Bank that does US dollar transactions.

Best regards,

TruePoker CEO

whangarei 11-29-2007 03:20 PM

Re: Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
[ QUOTE ]
That short-term charade of a "missed" window of opportunity for US players to get their money back gives lie to your assertion that somehow sending a cashout to a poker player violates US law. If you were permitted to do it then, post-UIGEA, you could do so now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point.

FreeBeer 11-29-2007 03:26 PM

Re: Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
This discussion interests me greatly, as I have >$5000 on Paradise Poker and they refuse to pay me, claiming they have method of paying a US player. They also claim they are working on getting me paid, but as this has gone on for months, and ALL correspondence has been initiated by me, well, I am discouraged to say the least.

I have offered a transfer to a non-US player. I have offered Western Union. I have offered to go to their offices in person and pick up cash or a cashier's check. All refused.

TruePoker CEO says I am being lied to. PokerRoom guy says this normal operating procedure. I am confused.

I understand Paradise might be afraid to make a US payment because of their affiliation with a sportsbook. But can they be serious about the danger of paying me by cashier's check in their own office?

I certainly feel cheated at this point. If anyone has any suggestions or strategy for me getting paid, I am all ears (and eyes).

xxThe_Lebowskixx 11-30-2007 02:18 AM

Re: Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
you guys are being unfair with PokerRoom. Look, from their perspective why not just allow Americans with money in their accounts to continue playing if its OK to send Americans funds but not to receive them? That would make them money, but they have clearly taken a different stance. Party has the same stance. They gave everyone a grace period.

However, if the site refused to reopen your account after you relocated, than that would be unfair and a big problem.

Blame the US government, not the site. They are just trying to walk the line.

PokerRoom.com 11-30-2007 05:51 AM

Re: Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
I would like to respond to the post from the TruePoker CEO and the accusations that I have been supplying BS. I know that any attempts to transfer funds to the United States from PokerRoom are now routinely blocked by the US banking system. I know that all of the payment service providers that used to work with us to process transactions in US dollars to the United States no longer provide those services.

I'm not sure how I exhibited either ignorance or arrogance. If players in the US have been insulted by my remarks, the insult was not intended.

It is not just a coincidence that all online poker sites that are owned and operated by listed companies no longer accept US players. The reason is the prohibition on online gaming set out in the UIGEA.

I leave 2+2's members to decide for themselves what to make of the TruePoker CEO's patronising attempts to capitalise on this situation. I also invite the 2+2 members to visit both TruePoker and PokerRoom to decide which is the deadbeat site for themselves.

I joined this conversation to work with the original poster to resolve this situation. It has been very instructive for me to do this and I am confident we will find a way to meet his needs.

Regards
Lee

PokerRoom.com

Mason Malmuth 11-30-2007 06:17 AM

Re: Excuse me, son, but \"legitimate\" poker operators pay US cashouts
 
Hi Lee:

I'm a little disturbed about this since pokerroom.com is part of our Bonus Program (for non-US players).

When you write:

[ QUOTE ]
I leave 2+2's members to decide for themselves what to make of the TruePoker CEO's patronising attempts to capitalise on this situation. I also invite the 2+2 members to visit both TruePoker and PokerRoom to decide which is the deadbeat site for themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how that helps to solve the problem of our poster getting his money back which is really the important issue here.

So perhaps you should work a little harder on figuring how to solve the real problem. Once that is done, then you can, in my opinion, address any issues you may have with the TruePoker CEO.

Best wishes,
Mason

Doc T River 11-30-2007 09:02 AM

Re: PokerRoom refuses to cashout US player
 
When I read the responses from the Pokerroom rep, I thought I was reading a response from one of our members of Congress.

I really loved his use of the term legitimate. I guess he is saying that if you are a US player and still able to transfer money to an online site, then you are dealing with an illegitimate company.

His posts strike me as a little on the arrogant side.


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