The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

Folded round to you in SB and you have 99. you are playing a 21/17 game.

BB is tricky, decent 24/21 who knows importance of position, willing to float, generally decent player (not some 18/12 grinder, but someone with ambitions to move up).

What do you do?

I advocate limp becuase I think raising leaves you vulnerable:

- he will expect your range is pretty wide here so he will call with a wide spectrum of hands as he will a) know he has position and b) will not want to seem like an easy blind steal

- you will flop an overpair only 20% of the time. if you plan to fire c-bet the flop and he could easily float you and then your in that '[censored], do i bet the turn again and let him make a move or keep paying him off or do i check and let him successful float-bluff me?'

for sure, sometimes he will fold preflop and fold on the flop, but given his player style this is not that often (note if he was a 17/12 i'd say raise pf everytime)

whereas by limping:

- he may raise with a wide range of hands and so by calling this, he will think maybe you are making a flat call with a speculative hand. if he then fires on the flop, you can then check-call given he will more often than not miss and will likely reveal his strength on the turn.

but importantly;

- when he checks you can then fire on the flop and either take it down then, or you can check and more often that not he'll bet with as a bluff or with a lower pair than 99, thus you get paid.

-----

well, those are my thoughts. as i mentioned a couple of weeks ago, i spent a lot of august re-evaluating my game, i used to always raise 99 in the sb but now i think focusing on a positional style of play preflop is much, much better. since switching to focusing more on position preflop when considering the blinds i have been a lot happier (and successful relative to july) than when i was playing a more hand strength preflop game.

for instance, the small blind takes a pounding when im in the big blind (obv i shift down gears if he starts limp-reraising).

i must stress this is only when the BB is a very good 24/21 or so. if he is tightish ill raise everytime.

but i just dont see the point in building a pot oop vs a tricky semi-lag with a hand which we can rarely have a lot of confidence with.

also id add if ive been playing tight on the table then im more likely to raise, as ever the importance of playing based on your image applies here.

ill throw in a poll:

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

john kane anthology material right here baby

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

One vote for "errr....wtf....this is always a raise...."

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

post i just made on the other thread i think is a worthy point as well:

by raising 99 pf you are making it a 4 betting street hand. with 99 oop vs a tricky playing willing to bluff-raise or float or whatever, i'd prefer to make it a 2 or 3 betting street hand than 4.

this hand will always be marginal if the pot escalates, and i dont want that when vs a tricky smart player oop on 4 streets of action.

edit: also, i am not trying to level anyone here or anything, i think it is better to limp.

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

I see a lot of you ppl did what I nearly did and didn't read all of the poll options before voting

I didn't read the OP yet either though.

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

what about smaller pairs? let's say you have 4s or 5s, do you raise or limp against this sort of player?

also how do u play your 9s? very passive on good flops? call down frequently?

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

smaller pairs i'd probably limp and fire most flops given im then likely ahead.

i'd rather do this than raise, get called, and then fire on a flop, then when he calls his hand range is infinite, whereas if he calls when i limp-bet flop i know he likely has something.

i think fold equity in SB on flop is much higher when you limp-bet than raise-bet.

as for playing 9s, the 20% it is an overpair ill always bet, if it comes with two cards from J or above then ill bet, as for one overcard im not sure, probably mix it up, but more likely check then bet turn.

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

to those who are always raising:

when you get called, flop comes 4 8 Q and you bet, he calls.

what are you then doing on the turn? (whatever the turn is, 3 7, A, i dont think it matters that much given his hand range is so wide).

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

I play poker?

wtf

building a pot when we have a big edge against our opponent's range is not a bad thing

Re: The 99 Preflop SB Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
smaller pairs i'd probably limp and fire most flops given im then likely ahead.

i'd rather do this than raise, get called, and then fire on a flop, then when he calls his hand range is infinite, whereas if he calls when i limp-bet flop i know he likely has something.

i think fold equity in SB on flop is much higher when you limp-bet than raise-bet.



[/ QUOTE ]

So do I want to

a) create a small pot and get no action unless I am behind

or

b) Create a bigger pot and get called by an "infinite" range on the flop of which we are ahead of a large part.