River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $643.80
UTG+1: $100
MP1: $100.50
CO: $200.90
Button: $375.50
Hero: $459.40
BB: $380.20

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $14</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($70, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($70, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $38</font>, BB calls, 3 folds.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($146, 2 players)
Hero?

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

As you're reasonably deep and made a weak turn bet (why?), I'd check call.

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

[ QUOTE ]
As you're reasonably deep and made a weak turn bet (why?), I'd check call.

[/ QUOTE ]

they only look deep cuz everyone else bought in short. effective stacks still at 100bb roughly.

also, why the 3:1 turn bet?

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

Well, you priced in a strong nut low draw (more or less) with the weak turn bet. On the plus side, maybe you get called by a weaker flush, since you're representing weakness yourself. Many of the hands that would make a FH should have bet the flop, so that seems somewhat unlikely. I guess I check/call here as well; a strong bet only gets called by hands that beat you anyway, I think.

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

Check call and value bet are up there and close. I think C/C &gt; B/F &gt; C/F

But I havent played against Dave much and dont know how often hell bluff here. Its possible that you should be betting smallish for value on the end

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

I think I do have a reputation as a bluffer, for whatever that's worth.

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

I've been lurking for about 2 months and finally decided to start participating in these discussions. I've been playing O8 for two years now on FTP, Stars, and Prima. I prefer PL to limit games, but generally don't venture above $200PL.

I generally agree with the prevailing wisdom on hands like these, but pot bets and check/calls both seem to lose money for me. I prefer to value bet about half the pot in this situation. I've had some success with this approach because it seems to scare away the bluffers and invite calls from smaller flushes. It still gets raised by boats, but doesn't lose as much as a pot-sized bet in the same situation.

Have I just been lucky to use this approach against weaker players, or is value-betting a long-term winner in hands like this?

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

Well, congratulations for trying to throw away half the pot by allowing a decent low draw to come in on the turn and also let someone with trips (and maybe the low draw as well) to see the river cheaply.

I would pot the turn and would think I would pick up the pot there and then betting into 4 others.

If you get a caller it will probably be a low draw and if the worst comes to the worst (like it did) then you have to put in about half the pot to try to take it down. Now, if your opponent is tricky and will spot weakling river tricks you either have to check-call to call off a bluff (depends on the opponent) or bet-fold, price depdending on opponent's trickiness (you need to smoke out bluffs but let full houses raise or call you)

edit: to check-call you need to be ahead 33% of the time. Are you?

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

This whole hand looks badly played to me. Sorry.

Re: River pairs board with nut flush against Dave.
 

Why didn't you bet the flop?