September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

It's that time of the year. Hope everyone (the Americans at least) enjoys their Labor Day weekend.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?

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Probably not terribly appropriate especially if referring to a person. Not a word that I use often and more to describe something that I am frustrated with, i.e trying to open that retarded packaging, clamshell packaging I believe it is called.
I am curious why you are asking.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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It's that time of the year. Hope everyone (the Americans at least) enjoys their Labor Day weekend.

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I cannot wait for the weekend to end because my kids go back to school!! Yay!!! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Utah is traveling for a few weeks so I get so well deserved "me" time. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?

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Depends on the company. Perfectly fine in some places, but worse than Hitler in others. Most bothersome thing about using it is that you never know when someone has that problem in their family themselves. This is why I don't like rape jokes much and try to be really careful about making them. I can't get behind "feeling" the retard one nearly so much, though, and I've known plenty(used to be a teacher's aide for a class full, etc.) It just seems to be constructed very, very differently. But lots of people don't care about fine points, and others prize political correctness quite a bit, sometimes very aggressively so.

So, since you never know who you're with, while I don't think using this word is bad, it's probably wiser just to find some other way to say something along the same line. Although, of course, calling someone an idiot is probably offensive to idiots or people who have idiots in their families, or are married to one, etc. *sigh*

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?


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Remember the Office episode about this? Pure hilarity. Michael explains "I would never call a retarded person a retard. A retard is what you call your friends when they are acting retarded!"

I have no problem with using "retarded" myself but I don't use it much if at all.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?

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Depends on the company. Perfectly fine in some places, but worse than Hitler in others. Most bothersome thing about using it is that you never know when someone has that problem in their family themselves. This is why I don't like rape jokes much and try to be really careful about making them. I can't get behind "feeling" the retard one nearly so much, though, and I've known plenty(used to be a teacher's aide for a class full, etc.) It just seems to be constructed very, very differently. But lots of people don't care about fine points, and others prize political correctness quite a bit, sometimes very aggressively so.

So, since you never know who you're with, while I don't think using this word is bad, it's probably wiser just to find some other way to say something along the same line. Although, of course, calling someone an idiot is probably offensive to idiots or people who have idiots in their families, or are married to one, etc. *sigh*

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So much to respond to.
I have a retarded sister. I pretty much just ignore people who use the term. I write them off as ignorant, thoughtless and rude, probably just a few I. Q. points above retarded.
I have a close acquaintance who was raped. I find the use of the word to describe winning at a poker table unsettling. It is a harsh and violent word. Someone once argued that saying "killing the table" was violent too. Some how that is not as offensive to me. I wonder if "killing the table" at a card game in a war zone where your buddy was killed would be deemed offensive?
And to political correctness. I think it is actually a call to speak accurately and in a civilized manner. It seems those who don't like PC language are usually upset that they can't express their bias's, prejudices and phobias in the crude manner they are used to. It is easier to make a point using using emotionally charged words than words that are accurate and civilized.
It is a long road. But when was the last time you heard the word niggger?

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

When I hear somebody call a person a retard, I defend the so called retarded person by calling the agitator a drater (look closely). They then look at me like im the idiot and quietly walk away. I defend the honor of everyone everywhere.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

Sounds like: 1) exhausting; 2) too easy to be self-righteously smug and incredibly passive-aggressive about. The former is an individual choice, but the latter strike me as by turns much worse and much more purposefully offensive than what they are ostensibly commenting on.

And I say ostensibly, because I think the point of politically correct scolding is so very often much more about the now distressfully socially acceptable release of amorphous rage than about making a point worth hearing. Frankly, the politically correct people I see manifesting it on hapless others are often among the least evolved, most hypocritical douchebags I've known.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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How bad is the word "retarded" when used in real life and not on a message board? Does anyone use this word in their daily vocabulary?

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Depends on the company. Perfectly fine in some places, but worse than Hitler in others. Most bothersome thing about using it is that you never know when someone has that problem in their family themselves. This is why I don't like rape jokes much and try to be really careful about making them. I can't get behind "feeling" the retard one nearly so much, though, and I've known plenty(used to be a teacher's aide for a class full, etc.) It just seems to be constructed very, very differently. But lots of people don't care about fine points, and others prize political correctness quite a bit, sometimes very aggressively so.

So, since you never know who you're with, while I don't think using this word is bad, it's probably wiser just to find some other way to say something along the same line. Although, of course, calling someone an idiot is probably offensive to idiots or people who have idiots in their families, or are married to one, etc. *sigh*

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So much to respond to.
I have a retarded sister. I pretty much just ignore people who use the term. I write them off as ignorant, thoughtless and rude, probably just a few I. Q. points above retarded.
I have a close acquaintance who was raped. I find the use of the word to describe winning at a poker table unsettling. It is a harsh and violent word. Someone once argued that saying "killing the table" was violent too. Some how that is not as offensive to me. I wonder if "killing the table" at a card game in a war zone where your buddy was killed would be deemed offensive?
And to political correctness. I think it is actually a call to speak accurately and in a civilized manner. It seems those who don't like PC language are usually upset that they can't express their bias's, prejudices and phobias in the crude manner they are used to. It is easier to make a point using using emotionally charged words than words that are accurate and civilized.
It is a long road. But when was the last time you heard the word niggger?

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I'm a little confused. You consider people who use the word retarded in certain contexts ignorant, same with people who use rape. You know someone who is mentally retarded and someone who has been raped. And you wonder why the term "killing" the table doesn't bother you? Seriously?

Honestly, the term "killing" is so commonly used outside of the realm of killing that it loses a lot of power. The thing is, the same goes for the word retarded.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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And to political correctness. I think it is actually a call to speak accurately and in a civilized manner. It seems those who don't like PC language are usually upset that they can't express their bias's, prejudices and phobias in the crude manner they are used to. It is easier to make a point using using emotionally charged words than words that are accurate and civilized.


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I agree with this completely. However, I think we often mean at least two different things by "political correctness." Your statement addresses the ignorant among us who either don't know better or simply don't care whether or not anyone would take offense with their thoughless words.

The other form of "political correctness" involves much more, and I'm not sure I could do it justice in any sort of brief response. In general, the second variant seems to include things such as humor in many forms, racial quotas, political causes, and perhaps a general tight-assedness.

For example. Is the following joke funny or racist?

Q. Why were so many Blacks killed in Vietnam.

A. Because every time someone yelled "Get Down," they all stood up and started dancing.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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For example. Is the following joke funny or racist?

Q. Why were so many Blacks killed in Vietnam.

A. Because every time someone yelled "Get Down," they all stood up and started dancing.

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Why can't it be both?

I'm guilty of the use of "retarded", but generally only around my friends and I don't think I'm being particularly witty when I do it. It's just that it's sometimes the most effective word to convey how I feel about something or someone. Just being honest. Now, if I knew one of the people in my group had a sibling or close relative with some sort of learning disability then yeah, I probably wouldn't do it because I'm not trying to be a dick.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

Exactly. It's not fair nor kind to attribute harmful intent casually. Even worse when that is taken as a flimsy pretext for one's own attacks. Such attacks are by definition overcompensating, but peculiar to some of the fondest celebrants of political correctness is the degree to which they are willing to aggress against others when they find a real or imagined infraction. The delight I've seen some PC types exhibit over the chance to leap in and bludgeon some hapless stranger has been repugnant.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

If you had a sister with a bum leg would you still use the word 'lame'?

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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If you had a sister with a bum leg would you still use the word 'lame'?

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My brother is crazy and I haven't foresworn calling other people crazy, or wacko, or insane. I understand their meaning and intent, even if it could be taken as insensitivity towards the mentally ill.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

By the way this discussion happening today is pretty ironic (I think that's proper use of the word "irony", Alanis has effed it up for generations).

My parents hate Jerry Lewis. Can't stand him. The story they tell is it was in the late 60s and they were living in NYC and watching the telethon. Jerry gets one of his Kids out on stage and when he wanted her to leave but she couldn't figure that out he said something to her like "run along, fat girl" or something really terrible that was obviously intended to get laughs at her expense.

Yeah, they brought that up every Labor Day and never donated to his cause after that...

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Exactly. It's not fair nor kind to attribute harmful intent casually. Even worse when that is taken as a flimsy pretext for one's own attacks. Such attacks are by definition overcompensating, but peculiar to some of the fondest celebrants of political correctness is the degree to which they are willing to aggress against others when they find a real or imagined infraction. The delight I've seen some PC types exhibit over the chance to leap in and bludgeon some hapless stranger has been repugnant.

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The people you describe are of course being the opposite of politically correct. If we accept the definition of political correctness to be both accurate and civilized in your speaking of your opinion. Therefore they are not PC types, they are hypocritical, righteous, self esteem issued, two faced douchebags.
You've mentioned it a couple of times, I'd be curious where you might be encountering this behavior.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

I use 'retarded' quite often regarding poker players and plays. It seems about as precise and pithy a word as I can think of. If someone finds it offensive then they're probably just gay.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

How can people claim greater intelligence when they are so easily offended and ready to judge someone by a single word the person has used?

Do they enjoy feeling smarter/more PC than everyone else?

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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I use 'retarded' quite often regarding poker players and plays. It seems about as precise and pithy a word as I can think of. If someone finds it offensive then they're probably just gay.

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i feel like this mentality accurately expresses the way i feel about word choice around close friends. (they know i am not a hateful or bigoted person, so i feel free to use offensive words because my friends will understand the intent).

around new people, you can very quickly judge whether or not somoene will be bothered by the use of the word "retarded," "gay," "bitch," and on down the line. use discretion based on that judgment. it's pretty simple to avoid offending people as long as you hold back a little until you know them better.

this is really a natural extension of the fact that while you might tell your best friend his hair cut is horrible or call him a complete idiot for not liking a certain movie, you wouldn't say the same kind of negative comments to a person in the first 15 minutes after you meet them.

i say the f-word entirely too frequently and i still avoid using it when im visiting my grandparents.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

So i made a pretty rash trip to DC (11 hrs one way) with my roommate and a friend.

Trip was nice, i had no idea how awesome those kids from Georgetown have it.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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If you had a sister with a bum leg would you still use the word 'lame'?

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Probably not. But I wouldn't get holier than thou about it either.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Exactly. It's not fair nor kind to attribute harmful intent casually. Even worse when that is taken as a flimsy pretext for one's own attacks. Such attacks are by definition overcompensating, but peculiar to some of the fondest celebrants of political correctness is the degree to which they are willing to aggress against others when they find a real or imagined infraction. The delight I've seen some PC types exhibit over the chance to leap in and bludgeon some hapless stranger has been repugnant.

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The people you describe are of course being the opposite of politically correct. If we accept the definition of political correctness to be both accurate and civilized in your speaking of your opinion. Therefore they are not PC types, they are hypocritical, righteous, self esteem issued, two faced douchebags.
You've mentioned it a couple of times, I'd be curious where you might be encountering this behavior.

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It's entirely a matter of opinion. They think they're politically correct. Importantly, whether you like being a douchebag or not, being a douchebag is not an argument against being politically correct. Tne two are not even close to mutually exclusive. Aye, and there's the rub.

I've noticed this among my friends who think they are more high-minded than they really are. Some who have real trouble with race -- though they are quite oblivious of this and would swear to the contrary -- and very few non-white friends, and who seem to take it as a particular point of pride when they do, are among the most politically correct. And FWIW, I think being high-minded must include not being a douchebag, or at least giving not being one a pretty fair shot. Being a douchebag by trying to publicly shame others and bring to the fore relative non-events of speech at others' expense seems to me to relinquish any standing they have as to measure, judgment, and non-douchebagginess.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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I use 'retarded' quite often regarding poker players and plays. It seems about as precise and pithy a word as I can think of. If someone finds it offensive then they're probably just gay.

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i feel like this mentality accurately expresses the way i feel about word choice around close friends. (they know i am not a hateful or bigoted person, so i feel free to use offensive words because my friends will understand the intent).

around new people, you can very quickly judge whether or not somoene will be bothered by the use of the word "retarded," "gay," "bitch," and on down the line. use discretion based on that judgment. it's pretty simple to avoid offending people as long as you hold back a little until you know them better.


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What mitigates against this being as easy as you say is that some people whip out the political correctness gambit very opportunistically, especially when mad. People who have cursed around you and said all kinds of things may sometimes instantly change to prudes if they think they can get some mileage off it. I've seen this with women more than men, who will sometimes try to swing the "fairer sex" crap in. I've had more than one try this with me, and my response has been something along the lines of, "As many times as I've heard you say eff this or that, it's a little late to get all delicate now."

People won't avoid trying stuff just because it's stupid.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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If you had a sister with a bum leg would you still use the word 'lame'?

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Probably not.

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See I probably would. I no longer know what's appropriate and what isn't. Do you think it's possible I spend too much time on a message board? I don't see anything wrong with the words "lame" "retarded" "crazy" or "insane". They have permeated my vocabulary and daily life. I thought they were accepted. I seriously think I need sensitivity training. it's like i've become very lax and crude since discovering the internet.

The whole reason I asked the question in the first place is that I called someone retarded today. Well to be precise, I didn't call HER retarded, I called her excuses retarded. It did not go over well.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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What mitigates against this being as easy as you say is that some people whip out the political correctness gambit very opportunistically, especially when mad. People who have cursed around you and said all kinds of things may sometimes instantly change to prudes if they think they can get some mileage off it.

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Oh my god. This is exactly how I felt today when this girl became deeply offended after I used the word "retarded" when referring to her excuses for not paying me money she owes me. I was totally thrown for a loop. Here's someone who's behaving like a complete con artist, a child, and a user and all of a sudden she's going politically correct on ME? She had my head spinning. I didn't know how to argue with her and I truly felt bad the rest of the day for daring to use the word "retarded". Sheesh. Nevertheless, I'll probably think twice before I ever use that word outside of the internet community again.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

Katy,

I don't think I've ever called anyone retarded in my life or used the word in connection with another such as you did when you called someone's excuses retarded. I have, however, and still do use the term "mentally retarded," but only when it applies to people who are mentally retarded--and I see little difference between "mentally retarded" and "mentally challenged." However, I'm certainly willing to listen to arguments against my use of the term, and if I find them substantive, I will not use "mentally retarded." I figure it's no skin off my ass to adjust my vocabulary to save someone else's feelings.

Oscar Wilde said that "a gentlemen is someone who never insults someone unintentionally." It is, I think, a thought to live by.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

Blarg,

You are completely wrongheaded throughout this thread, but I'm having the best time reading your posts.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Oscar Wilde said that "a gentlemen is someone who never insults someone unintentionally." It is, I think, a thought to live by.

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If that's the case, why are we forbidding people from using "retarded" as a deliberate insult? Generally, I'm speaking amongst the casual ribbing that goes on between friends, but they're still deliberate insults nonetheless.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

Katy,

Next time just scowl like a Klingon with a urinary infection and say, 'How about you stop trying to change the subject and give me the money you owe me.'

And don't let her deviate from this. Just keep repeating that and say it louder each time.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Oscar Wilde said that "a gentlemen is someone who never insults someone unintentionally." It is, I think, a thought to live by.

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If that's the case, why are we forbidding people from using "retarded" as a deliberate insult? Generally, I'm speaking amongst the casual ribbing that goes on between friends, but they're still deliberate insults nonetheless.

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Oscar Wilde had a great way with words.

I think PC is something to consider outside humor. But then you get into those who either think they are funny but aren't or confuse humor with making fun of someone else. the old " I was jut kidding' excuse after an insult.
Close friends and family often fit a special category....but watch your mouth around grandma....
Grandma insults like Oscar Wilde, with eloquence.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

The whole reason I asked the question in the first place is that I called someone retarded today. Well to be precise, I didn't call HER retarded, I called her excuses retarded. It did not go over well.

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She was not actually being PC, she was running her crap on you. PC was her weapon of choice. Notice how she was not defending her excuses, but attacking you instead. I suspect her excuses were weak so she had to mis-direct the conversation. You gave her the opening by choosing your words without a bit of care.

Subject to follow: Word parsing for fun and profit.
Working title: Angle Shooting for Wordsmiths.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Katy,

Next time just scowl like a Klingon with a urinary infection and say, 'How about you stop trying to change the subject and give me the money you owe me.'

And don't let her deviate from this. Just keep repeating that and say it louder each time.

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Agreed. You totally fell for her misdirection. Instead of pressing the issue, you spent all day wondering if your word choice was "wrong". Perfect example of PC as a weapon.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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If you had a sister with a bum leg would you still use the word 'lame'?

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Probably not.

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See I probably would. I no longer know what's appropriate and what isn't. Do you think it's possible I spend too much time on a message board? I don't see anything wrong with the words "lame" "retarded" "crazy" or "insane". They have permeated my vocabulary and daily life. I thought they were accepted. I seriously think I need sensitivity training. it's like i've become very lax and crude since discovering the internet.

The whole reason I asked the question in the first place is that I called someone retarded today. Well to be precise, I didn't call HER retarded, I called her excuses retarded. It did not go over well.

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I don't think it's worth sweating over, katy, but there are always people who will love to make the next guy sweat. You just have to decide how much the opinion and company of those people means to you Frankly, I think a guy who goes around busting my balls is not my friend anyway, so I'm not too concerned about losing that person's company, and indeed will make an effort to do so.

Watch out what you say at work, too. That's the home of vengeful, calculated, hypocritical political correctness, including the kind that gets written down in personnel files.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Blarg,

You are completely wrongheaded throughout this thread, but I'm having the best time reading your posts.

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People of goodwill can differ. It's nice that people who differ can have a reasonable, adult discussion about their differences, too. Civilization rocks.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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She was not actually being PC, she was running her crap on you. PC was her weapon of choice. Notice how she was not defending her excuses, but attacking you instead. I suspect her excuses were weak so she had to mis-direct the conversation. You gave her the opening by choosing your words without a bit of care.



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Indeed you are right and I am living to regret my choice of words. See I thought that I had practiced extreme restraint by not dropping the f-bomb, or calling her a pathetic loser and a ginormous malicious conwoman. My exasperated delivery of "that's retarded, Cara," seemed like I was being rather restrained, well in my mind anyway. I was rather taken aback when she acted deeply offended. I was curious whether other people had experienced being scolded for using that word as it seems so commonplace on the internet [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

I guess you and entertainme are trying to tell me that I'm obsessing too long on a word now, after the fact, when if I had used more care in choosing my words at the time I would not be in this position. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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Katy,

Next time just scowl like a Klingon with a urinary infection and say, 'How about you stop trying to change the subject and give me the money you owe me.'

And don't let her deviate from this. Just keep repeating that and say it louder each time.

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I think I will try to follow this advice next time. By the way, "scowl like a Klingon" is a great description. I have a pretty good scowl.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

I think DB is channeling Michael Caine on this one.

Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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I think DB is channeling Michael Dorn on this one.

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Re: September\'s Bells and Schools Thread
 

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I don't see anything wrong with the words "lame" "retarded" "crazy" or "insane".

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Being 3 of those 4 words, I hereby give you permission to use them. I use them sparsely, but sometimes no other word will do.

brag/
Speaking of crazy, I just bought a new car. 2007 chevy monte carlo.
http://driving.canada.com/carbuild/i...-white1409.jpg

I bought my last car in 1995, so this is a huge jump up. I would like to thank all the pokerstars players who donated, as well as D. Sklansky for his hot tip on IMMR. They have made this dream possible.
/brag