Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

bonds, I think run a clean program is number 1. That is one of the things I give Carr credit for. I would much rather lose doing things right, then win by cheating. However, that really isn't a choice you should have to make at Michigan, with all our advantages, especially in recruiting.

Not on your list, but I'd like to see a coach with some background in special teams.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

mpitts,

you notice who's coaching here now and who isn't. and you're dead spot on, we're going to be devastated when LLoyd retires. and rooting desperately for les miles!

jaredl,

there pretty clearly is. obv it's not sample size/luck/'tever.

bonds,

i'll take any chance i can to hate on y'all, thanks.

in reality, any criteria for michigan coach should be 1: beat ohio state 2-14: whatever mumbo jumbo you said.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

I don't think age is a huge problem. We don't need a 20-year guy. Plus, anyone that young (late 30's/early 40's) is going to have less of a track record and is more of a threat to move on and up. Granted, if your coach does well enough such that the NFL or something comes calling, oh well, you obviously had a lot of success and can hire again. But someone like Miles gives us 10-12 years, once we get tired of his particular flaws it'll be time for him to move on anyway.

WRT all those criteria, they obviously all matter. Basically, if you separate them into things that have a big direct effect on winning (recruiting, strategy, teaching etc) and more representative ones that may have an effect on winning but it is more incidental (good face for the university, media savvy, clean program). In so far as the first set goes, obviously I want whatever combination makes winning most likely. All are useful, some more than others. Recruiting is huge, as is hiring top assistants and teaching well.

As far as the others go, keeping the program clean (or as clean as these things can be) is #1. Media savvy would be a nice change from Carr and I'd love to have a real spring game but whatever, I'd be very hard-pressed to think of the situation where that ultimately changes my opinion on a guy.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
bonds, I think run a clean program is number 1. That is one of the things I give Carr credit for. I would much rather lose doing things right, then win by cheating. However, that really isn't a choice you should have to make at Michigan, with all our advantages, especially in recruiting.

Not on your list, but I'd like to see a coach with some background in special teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right about running a clean program, but what does that mean - no NCAA violations? No player arrests? No Miami-FIU brawls? No strippers on recruiting trips?

Is it enough that the coach's integrity is unquestionable, even if some of the players go astray, kids being kids?

And how much weight, if any do you give to the whispers? I mean, Miles hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) ever been sanctioned or even investigated by the NCAA, but you read crazy stuff on the internet that says he's a bit shady.

I don't expect you or anyone to have answers, but Martin's going to have to think about that stuff before committing millions.

And on the subject of special teams, I'd be happy if the new guy just put a little emphasis on it. Maybe had a special teams assistant. You can only do so much as the head guy, so I don't care if he's got experience as long as he makes it a priority.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think you're right about running a clean program, but what does that mean - no NCAA violations? No player arrests? No Miami-FIU brawls? No strippers on recruiting trips?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it can't mean no arrests. It means no violations or brawls, and reasonable discipline when arrests do occur. Anyway, if there aren't decent disciplinary measures taken, then things will likely get out of hand eventually. Some of this also means that occasionally taking a flyer on a kid with a record is necessary.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it enough that the coach's integrity is unquestionable, even if some of the players go astray, kids being kids?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course.

[ QUOTE ]
And how much weight, if any do you give to the whispers? I mean, Miles hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) ever been sanctioned or even investigated by the NCAA, but you read crazy stuff on the internet that says he's a bit shady.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really sure. The main rumor I've heard is telling recruits (specifically Jai Eugene) things about Carr's health that weren't true. That's a bit of a problem; I expect negative recruiting but I'd at least like to pretend it is legitimate. Plus he's at LSU; in Louisiana, breaking the rules is mandatory. But I hope that the institutional control and expectation ensure that he or whoever the coach is doesn't do anything wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't expect you or anyone to have answers, but Martin's going to have to think about that stuff before committing millions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure he will. Not that I ever expect academics to overpower athletics here, but if we had a "renegade" program the faculty would be a lot louder and they would get more attention when bitching about athletics. The powers that be are very sensitive to maintaining good athletics but are even more concerned with the academic reputation, and I'd suspect that running a renegade program would be seen as tarnishing that somehow. Plus Ed Marten isn't cold in his grave as far as the Athletic Department is concerned; they are very sensitive to this.

[ QUOTE ]
And on the subject of special teams, I'd be happy if the new guy just put a little emphasis on it. Maybe had a special teams assistant. You can only do so much as the head guy, so I don't care if he's got experience as long as he makes it a priority.

[/ QUOTE ]

We had one for awhile, it's only the last 2 years that we haven't. The weird thing is that we've had good special teams at various times: Breaston was a great kick returner, we blocked a ton of punts in 2001 (and none since; baffling), and periods of consistent solid kickers interspersed with awful ones (2001, this year until KC came in).

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think age is a huge problem. We don't need a 20-year guy. Plus, anyone that young (late 30's/early 40's) is going to have less of a track record and is more of a threat to move on and up.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I think it would disqualify *some* of the names that have been tossed about. Just to pick one random example, Norm Chow. He's 61, which means he's not even a possibility for 10 years. (not that I think he's a possibility in the first place, but he's been mentioned on a couple wish lists)

I don't think you can even consider anyone over 52 - it has to be ideal to have the possibility of having a great coach for at least 10 years, right?

Too young is less of an issue, simply because it'd be hard to find a young coach with the necessary background. No chance Martin hires a trainee.

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Didn't Chelsea just fire their football coach? Let's go get him.

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Could he beat Saline?

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saline pwns all. HORNETS! (class of 01)

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

Right. Early 50's is as old as it goes, and you can't get much younger than 40. Not because young people suck but because you want a significant track record. Many programs need to take chances, hoping to find the next big thing in coaching, and so have to take risks on guys who have had a couple of good years at 1 school and hope they are a good coach generally. Michigan and other top programs have no need to do this; let them prove themselves at the lower levels and pluck them away. Or you can be like Notre Dame and just make a bunch of bizarre hires (a friggin' high school coach? Really?).

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

If Jim Harbaugh didn't make the comments about academics etc..earlier this year, does anybody think he would be a candidate?

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 

guys on the radar for a higher head coaching job

Mark Mangino
Charlie Strong
Bo Pellini
Wil Muschamp
Brent Venables
Jumbo Fisher
Jim Harbaugh
Gus Malzahn
Mike Leach
DeWayne Walker
Steve Sarkisian
Greg Davis
Ron Prince
Gary Pinkel


I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan ends up with Greg Mattison who is flying under the radar

He is currently Florida's co-defensive coordinator. He was a d-line coach and defensive coordinator at Michigan from 1992 to 1996. He's a midwest guy. His son plays at Iowa right now.