JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

pretty simple scenario. villain in this hand is 24/15/inf over a 60 hand sample. i've never played with him before, and don't know much of anything about him. i'm new to the table.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $96.35
UTG: $193
Hero (BTN): $120.35
SB: $127.05

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4</font>, SB calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($9) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7

Turn: ($23) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $17</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $62.50</font>

what is your plan on the flop? obviously most of this guys range is draws. would we rather get our money in now, or take the higher risk route of calling in order to keep our villain betting? same question on the turn.

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

I'd rather raise the flop and let him make a bad shove. As played I don't like the turn raise, just call and see the river

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

yeah, i kind of wasted my hand on the turn. i didn't feel too bad about it though, because even though i was essentially bluffing vs. his range, its still a really profitable bluff. after looking back on it though, i also think raising the flop is best, followed by calling turn.

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

raise flop all day

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

If you're not raising that flop, what flop are you raising that doesn't have a Jack in it?

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

i think there is two lines we can use to exploit a villain like this. the first would be to call/call/call, since we can assume he will bet 3 streets with worse often enough so we can encourage him to fire.

The second would be to raise the flop with the hope that he makes the mistake of shoving a draw or some worse made hand that thinks its pot equity and fold equity are big enough the flop.

If we raise the turn, we are almost never getting shoved on by worse, and we are shutting out bluffs that likely have very little equity against jacks. So with that being said, i would pick one of the two lines and go with it. raising the turn is pretty bad.

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

like most people i would raise flop

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

100% raise flop, he could so easily be doing a pot size bet to check where you really stand while Holding AK etc.. Then even if you call he may hit A or K and take the lead.

Also if you 3 bet and he calls you are maybe looking at higher over pair or highly unlikely 4 of kind or trips.

Basically, apart from now having no idea where you stand, you risked being outdrawn to a A, K or Q or maybe even an open str8 draw.

Raise Raise Raise.

Re: JJ overpair. what\'s your standard play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
100% raise flop, he could so easily be doing a pot size bet to check where you really stand while Holding AK etc.. Then even if you call he may hit A or K and take the lead.

Also if you 3 bet and he calls you are maybe looking at higher over pair or highly unlikely 4 of kind or trips.

Basically, apart from now having no idea where you stand, you risked being outdrawn to a A, K or Q or maybe even an open str8 draw.

Raise Raise Raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? he like never has AK here, and i have an incredibly good idea where i stand. hh/89s/77-99/random air, moreso the first two than the last, is what he's usually got here. the T on the turn hooks up with almost none of that.

obviously raising on the flop is fine, and if i make a big raise, its maybe tempting for him to shove even weaker draws given stack size, but its not like calling against this guy isn't also very profitable as well.

i'm fairly well sold on the flop raise, but i don't think that calling and raising that turn is as bad in relation to calling down as some of you guys are making it out to be. yeah, it just folds out of a bunch of draws, but we really don't know that he'll triple if he misses, and he's folding the turn almost always, after doubling almost always, and we do get the one extra bet.