w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

i was going to post this in the LCT, but it highlights a point I've made before, that if your W$SD is too high you're probably giving up value by not semi-bluffing/looking people up enough. these are all the Full Tilt 1-2 players in my database with more than 10,000 hands:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1200/wsdsj6.jpg

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

explain please pete!

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

it's really funny to see guys who were regs in that game a year and a half ago still there as meager winners.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

Yeah, 45.7 looks pretty close to right. I'm 45.9 over my entire database, and I'm still a pretty solid winner.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

I'm at 54% with 9.5bb/100....Does that mean I'm too tight?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at 54% with 9.5bb/100....Does that mean I'm too tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you delete your post with the image earlier?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

I was going to respond to your post and then ask my question about moving up, but decided it would be better in two sep. posts. Didn't want to jack your thread with my dumbarse "if I don't move up am I a pu**y" question.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

My numbers....20K plus hands/9.2 PTBB100/45.87% W$SD.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if your W$SD is too high you're probably giving up value by not semi-bluffing/looking people up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]
if you can tell this from someone's W$SD, how is it a worthless stat?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if your W$SD is too high you're probably giving up value by not semi-bluffing/looking people up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]
if you can tell this from someone's W$SD, how is it a worthless stat?

[/ QUOTE ]

oops

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

My show down # is only 25.92% do I fold too often when I have the winner? I think I certainly do -- not as much now though as I did in the beginning. Grrr I don't do well when I am out of position and I end up folding when I may at times have a winner.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

We're talking about W$SD (won money at showdown), not WTSD. 25.9's a perfectly reasonable number for WTSD.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

Dur i see now mine is 43.97% so I am doing fine. Ty

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if your W$SD is too high you're probably giving up value by not semi-bluffing/looking people up enough.

[/ QUOTE ]
if you can tell this from someone's W$SD, how is it a worthless stat?

[/ QUOTE ]

oops

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt it super easy to just download all the stats of people that you have 5,000+ hands of and see if there is a correlation to winrate?

I think that your thread title will end up being w$sd is a non-correlative (to winrate) stat.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

There's a definite correlation. It's just that one doesn't necessarily increase with the other. For instance, I'd guess that players who's W$SD is between say 44 and 54 have much higher winrates than players who's W$SD is outside of those bounds.

It's a stat just like VPIP where you're trying to get close to an optimal range rather than just trying to make it as small or as large as possible.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

Good point Iggy, it may not be linear.

Also, you shouldn't just look at people with x,000+ hands because it probably eliminates losers. Or I guess if you do limit it that way the question is more like, "Of players who play a lot, what is the best range for this stat".

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

If you look at it in the short-term though, there probably would be a linear relationship since the people with really high W$SD in the short-term would be the ones were running hot. I think the data you get for people with >5000 hands would be much more accurate than the data for people who played less, even if there was still a little bit of a bias.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

the problem is that i don't have a database nearly big enough to do any meaningful analysis on this stuff, since both winrate and w$sd are extremely volatile. and on top of that there are going to be tons of biases -- e.g., people who run hot in their showdowns are more likely to keep playing, etc.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at it in the short-term though, there probably would be a linear relationship since the people with really high W$SD in the short-term would be the ones were running hot. I think the data you get for people with >5000 hands would be much more accurate than the data for people who played less, even if there was still a little bit of a bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hypothesis could easily be tested.

It's a well known assumption that losing gamblers quit. So the people that only play a little bit, what is THEIR w$sd?

Along the same lines, I would bet that of all the people in pf's database with <500 hands, their VPIP is greater than the people in pf's database with >5,000 hands.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

my stats are 53.3 w$sd, 6.14 bb/100...60k hands

although imho i've run bad for long periods

am i to infer i don't look people up enough?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
my stats are 53.3 w$sd, 6.14 bb/100...60k hands

although imho i've run bad for long periods

am i to infer i don't look people up enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

The best way to figure this out would be to play your next 60k hands and everytime you don't want to look someone up, roll a ten-sided dice. If it says "1", then look them up when you would have folded.

Then for hands 120,001 to 180,000 look them up if the dice says either "1" and "2".

Und so weiter.

If Iggy is correct you will see a biphasic curve which will lead you to the optimal number for your type of play.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Troll

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

You could do the same thing when contemplating whether to bluff right?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

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You could do the same thing when contemplating whether to bluff right?

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for 90% of players, just bluffing every time they think it's a borderline decision would probably improve their game.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my stats are 53.3 w$sd, 6.14 bb/100...60k hands

although imho i've run bad for long periods

am i to infer i don't look people up enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

The best way to figure this out would be to play your next 60k hands and everytime you don't want to look someone up, roll a ten-sided dice. If it says "1", then look them up when you would have folded.

Then for hands 120,001 to 180,000 look them up if the dice says either "1" and "2".

Und so weiter.

If Iggy is correct you will see a biphasic curve which will lead you to the optimal number for your type of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's just stupid. I'll let others elaborate as to why.

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

Coz biphasic isn't a word?

Re: w$sd is a worthless stat (semi-brag)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Coz biphasic isn't a word?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes it is. (It's an adjective).

Buzz