HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

I have come to know a very experienced dealer in my local card room. Like many of the other dealers he regularly sits in as a prop to keep games going. Unlike the others though he is very good. This guy can often read players hands like they are face up. He plays in mostly 10/20 and below and hops around from table to table alot. He usually buys in pretty short (around 10 to 15 big bets). Once he doubles through he will find some excuse to change tables. Then when he buys in at the next table, he will pocket the profit and starts over. He is very entertaining and friendly at the table. He often softplays when he is way out in front and is never critical of very poor players. Many times he will turn his hand over to show a big hand and tell some one to "save your bet". No one else seems to mind that he is fleecing the whole room. I'm sure this hit and run strategy is out of necessity. It keeps the games from losing to many players and helps to hide his winnings. I'm sure with his skill if he sat at one table to long it would draw to much attention. He's a nice guy but I find pretty anoying to watch $ leave my table and go in his pocket.

Does anyone have any experience with hit and runners? Have any of you used this strategy yourselves? Is there a time and place that you should hit and run?

I guess I have been guilty of this once in a extremely loose and aggressive short handed 10/20 game. I was up $300 when the game became LAG. I nursed my $300 profit, seeing flops with these drunks until I caught a few hands. I cashed out shortly there after useing two more racks to carry my chips to the cage than I had bought in with. In my defense I had already played 10 hours before the table became maniacal.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

I'm sure he's not that good.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

I've seen players do this quite a bit. Ususally they are weak/bad and think it helps as a way to "limit the down side." I've seen these same players make 3 or 4 short-buys and then leave to another table after having "bad luck."

I think your prop/dealer is different though. Seems that he does not want to kill a table by being seen as good/chip leader. It may scare-off some players be seeing him with a large stack.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

He has senoirtity over the rest of the dealers yet he perfers to play and only deal during breaks for the rest of the dealers. This guy has a charisma about him that few player have. People enjoy losing to him. Let me rephrase that they enjoy the time they spend with him while losing. I am not claiming that he is the greatest player ever, however his strategies seem to work very well for him. I've clocked many hours playing at his table or at least in his vicinity, and he is a very solid winner. That said is his strategy one that is worth considering.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]
He usually buys in pretty short (around 10 to 15 big bets). Once he doubles through he will find some excuse to change tables. Then when he buys in at the next table, he will pocket the profit and starts over. .... He often softplays when he is way out in front ... Many times he will turn his hand over to show a big hand and tell some one to "save your bet"..

[/ QUOTE ]

These are all strategies to fail. I don't care how good a hand reader he is, he's killing himself by playing short, and giving up bets when he's ahead. He's actively trying to win the least amount when he has a big hand.

And you have no idea whether he's a winning player. You'd have to play with him for long periods and track his every session to know for sure. Since he jumps from table to table, clearly you don't. He's just been lucky at your tables and you assume he's good.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He usually buys in pretty short (around 10 to 15 big bets).

[/ QUOTE ]

These are all strategies to fail. I don't care how good a hand reader he is, he's killing himself by playing short,

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he should buy in 30BB? Why?

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

Im not saying that he buys in short and dwindles away his stack. He will replenish his short stack as needed, keeping the 10 to 15 big bets in front of him (enough to play the next hand). I supose to keep his stack as low as possible and avoid unwanted attention. Another thing Ive noticed about this guy is how he can manipulate the betting. I don't know if it is his posture, voice tone, the words he speaks or all of the above. He seems to get the calls that he wants or the respect he wants at will. Have you ever met someone in your life that was simply put, "a born leader"? That's him.

Anyway my question is more about table and card room hopping. Does anyone do this profitably? I've always heard not to leave the table as long as it is still good. Good for who though? One thing I've noticed is that when someone who is playing solid gets on a good rush, other opponents often try to play better against that person, therefore they get less action. I've seen it many times. A guy will double up. The table will somewhat shut down on him. Then he will lose much of it back. By leaving when up and starting over The seafood buffet is always fresh.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

I'm not really clear how buying in for 10-15BB in a live limit game is "short". In the games I play in I buy in for 2 racks just so that it will look like I'm winning even if I'm breaking even, everyone else usually buys in for a rack which is 12.5 bets, I wouldn't call that short. It's enough to cap every street, and plenty to realistically play a few pots without being all in.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

Why don't you just ask this guy out, it's obvious that you want to bone him.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]


You think he should buy in 30BB? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not for 30BB, but buying in for $200 in a 10-20 game seems foolish, doesn't it? Unless he rebuys after every losing hand. Let's say he loses one hand, and drops to $120. The next hand he makes the nuts against two raising maniacs, he runs out of money on the turn. Those rare times you have a big hand you want to get paid the max.

The other idea that a player can succeed leaving a table just when he's gotten a read on the players there is problematic in my mind as well.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]
He's a nice guy but I find pretty anoying to watch $ leave my table and go in his pocket.


[/ QUOTE ]

If he's as good of a player as you say he is, then you should be happy when he goes away from your table, with or without your money.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

A couple of things to keep in mind. First, the casino is paying the dealer minimum wage to keep the game going. So that has to factor in his overall strategy.

Second, I think there is something to be said for chatting people up, smiling and being an overall nice guy to get control of the table.

I can't tell you how bad these low limit grinder guys are for the games. So many times, I will get the table laughing having a good time and one of these personality-less nitwits sits down at the table with his hooded sweatshirt and i-pod. "Raise. Raise. Raise. "

Pretty soon everyone tightens up. The lady guzzling pinot grigio leaves, the foreign guy who has some cash in front of him loses a big pot. Everyone stops talking and the good times are over. And next thing you know a 1-3 table has now become the Final Table of the World Series of Poker. And for chrissakes, don't let the low limit grinder guy get sucked out on for a big pot early. Then there will be a barrage of insults and ridiculous cursing.

So I think while the dealer may not make as much as he can on any one specific hand, he keeps a light mood at the table while playing semi-correct poker which is always good for the bottom line.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

Even politicians like Bush will smile and joke as they screw u. That way u will keep letting them do it.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

This version of "rat-holing" has absolutely no impact on his EV, or yours.

I'm a dealer, and I prop a lot, and I win a lot more than I lose. When I've got a big stack of chips, the players all whine about the "expert house player" sent over to take all their money.

Your guy is probably just trying to avoid that. Frankly, I think it's a good idea, and I might start to do it.

Trouble is, I hate the thought of leaving a table that has given me so many chips. I'm not independently wealthy, I can't just walk away from +EV.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

He's a good player and will only stay a short time and this BOTHERS you? You should be thanking him

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

IS THIS A NL GAME?????? cus if not then the guy sounds like a moron and thats prolly why he's dealing cards for a living

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]
IS THIS A NL GAME?????? cus if not then the guy sounds like a moron and thats prolly why he's dealing cards for a living

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
He plays in mostly 10/20 and below

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think he is talking about a dealer 'propping' a $10/$20 NL game?

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

I know that this sort of hit and run strategy is generaly frowned upon by the poker room management and the poker regulars, however I think in the midst of the busy weekends (especially in the lower limits) it would go more unnoticed. I think that much thought and reasoning has gone into his strategy, and it suits him well because of his situation. Many times if I have a good run early in a session I will take my winnings and move up a level, but I haven't ever simply switched tables just to go south. Also, I'm sure everyone has switched tables before to try get in a better game. I'm leavin in a couple of hours for another poker trip. We will be back sunday night or maybe monday morning. I'll see how it goes.

Re: HIT AND RUN SPECIALIST
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know that this sort of hit and run strategy is generaly frowned upon by the poker room management and the poker regulars,

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop worrying about what other people think. Other people don't pay your bills. You do what works for you, and let others do what works for them.

The intelligent customers hate paying a high rake. Do you think that management cares? Do you really think management sits around and says, "Hey, Joe Blow hits and runs a lot--we hate this guy. He's hurting our business.

You're worrying about the wrong things.

Don't concern yourself with the strategy others employ. If you see someone doing something you like, copy it and try it yourself. That's how you learn, by watching others. You try this and that and use what works for you.

Bottom line:

Get the money, get out, and then go bone that guy that said you wanted to bone the other guy because he wanted to bone you. Oh well, you get the idea.