ot: training a total novice
 

this forums sorta my home and i respect the posters here so i thought id post this here

my friend works a crappy job that doesnt pay much. hes smart, has some gamble in him and plays euchre optimally. so i told him i'd teach him how to play poker. im pretty confident that hes not gonna go bankrupt from degenerate gambling or anything.

i think he knows enough about poker to know that like the small blind acts first postflop, but i would imagine he'd be an open limping fish if he played tomorrow.

i dont really wanna give him books bc i think even the best books basically teach players a rote strategy instead of the fundamentals that let u determine what the correct play is. i think thats pretty dangerous and hard to break free from. i mean the posters in the low limit forums are prob in the top 10% of all poker players but they have a very poor grasp of the game which makes them totally unequipped to tackle less broad poker problems.

so any ideas on how to train him? id figure id just play micro stakes with him and talk him through hands but its prob hard to talk poker with someone who doesnt have the same frames of reference as everyone else ive ever talked poker strategy with

limit or no limit? i think no limits better to teach in a vacuum, but i have virtually no experience playing it. i feel like i have a pretty deep understanding of no limit (fundamental poker skills are pretty transferable) but i have no clue how other people play which is pretty important

anyone think this is a terrible idea?

theres more but i'll just leave the post at that for now

holla

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

I'd say tell him to get a membership at one of the sites that does videos. Watch the videos with him and answer questions, explain concepts, and expound on the dialogue as you go.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

Speaking from experience teaching smart but completely new to poker people, I think you are making a big mistake dismissing the books. He needs to learn fundamentals, the proper terminology and lingo just to discuss poker with you, and he needs to figure out on his own if he enjoys the game. If he is smart as you say he will learn the rote book strategy and eventually challenge it.

What I have done with everyone is say "you need to learn the basics on your own and then I will help you" and give them SSH and set them up on UB to play 1c/2c full ring limit and learn the mechanics. If they can't beat that game before coming to me for more help I'd have serious doubts about their commitment or ability.

__1__'s idea is also a good one, I've never taken a complete novice and thrown them into videos before, I think it would probably work faster than the books but the learning curve would be sickly steep at the beginning. Obviously I'd recommend one video site above others - it rhymes with MoosesPacked.com. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I have done with everyone is say "you need to learn the basics on your own and then I will help you" and give them SSH and set them up on UB to play 1c/2c full ring limit and learn the mechanics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I also teached a lot for a few years and I think reading is the fastest way to learn the basics.

There are some basics that u have to know before u can talk poker at all. Potodds, counting outs, startinghand charts... If u try to talk poker with someone that knows nothing about this he will be forced to understand each example on its own, he got no basic structure. And remember, there is a HUGE difference between theoretically understand the idea of implied odds and really use it when u play and got 5 sec to do a decision while u at the same time think of 10 other things.

And at least as important, if the other guy dont have the patience to read one book and understand it, he will NEVER EVER become god at poker (and in my experience this is the main problem, it takes a lot of time to be good at poker, its not a matter of weeks or months unless u do it full time, which many of us cant).

Before u even try to start talking poker he should:

Read 1 book and understand the basics (I think Lee Jones is fine, but of course SSH is better, but Im not sure this is a book for a total beginner)

Beat the lowest fixed limit online.

Then, when he tries to play well, u can tell him everything he does wrong.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

The best way to teach is to let him sweat your sessions while he pushes the buttons but you instruct him on what to do and why. It also makes you play your best game and shows him how to play at a level where the players know what they are doing.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

i thihk you should play 5 10 or 10 20 on the internet have your friend invest 5 or 10 percent of the action so he pays close attention, then have him act out ur actions with you telling him why. i did this two years ago and turned my friend into a solid winning player.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

I am doing the same thing with a friend of mine from Sweden. He is very smart and has a decent grasp of the game from a recreational point of view. He is broke now and his wife just left him but I really think his game is coming around. Ok, slight exaggeration but I will say this: it is a huge commitment if your friend wants to get good enough to make decent money and anything short of totally diving in face first will not cut it.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

No formal coaching or teaching poker experience before, but I was a bit surprised to see your dismissal of books and a rote teaching approach as an appropriate -- or at least not an inappropriate -- first step to the game. I was imagining DD's response before I read it -- but his is well-articulated and actually based upon prior experience, so it is much more worthwhile than I could have done. I think it bears repeating.

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking from experience teaching smart but completely new to poker people, I think you are making a big mistake dismissing the books. He needs to learn fundamentals, the proper terminology and lingo just to discuss poker with you, and he needs to figure out on his own if he enjoys the game. If he is smart as you say he will learn the rote book strategy and eventually challenge it.

What I have done with everyone is say "you need to learn the basics on your own and then I will help you" and give them SSH and set them up on UB to play 1c/2c full ring limit and learn the mechanics. If they can't beat that game before coming to me for more help I'd have serious doubts about their commitment or ability.

__1__'s idea is also a good one, I've never taken a complete novice and thrown them into videos before, I think it would probably work faster than the books but the learning curve would be sickly steep at the beginning. Obviously I'd recommend one video site above others - it rhymes with MoosesPacked.com. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

I think you should give him a book to read to get the fundamentals he hasnt to copy any idea of this book.
He wont anyway understand and remember everything its just to let understanding the underlying concepts, then let him read a sticky in this Forum and answer him the questions about things he dont understand.

Then begin to let him sweat you and the other way around and watching videos. Teaching him how to solve problems on his own etc.

Letting him sweat you or u sweating him or letting him watch stox vids right from the beginning is too confusing for a complete novice i think. I think that would cause the things u r worried about when letting him read books.

Again the book wouldnt be there to teach him a general strategy it is to teach him the fundamentals making him think about the game and setting him up for future thought processes he needs to be succesfull, and if youre there for him answering him any question he has while he is learning the game on his own would be great i think.

Re: ot: training a total novice
 

There is way too much to pick up just from watching online videos or even watching you play. Start with Getting Started in Hold'em and stake him for the micros, and see which is more effective. I Agree with others in that multiple books is the way to go.