Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

BB is tilty, aggro, too loose, and not very good. Generally passive postflop but gets his money in sometimes in weird spots (47/12/1.5/940). MP3 is too loose and too happily stacks off without the goods or even a draw to the goods (45/17/2.7/410). My image is aggro and possibly bad, depending on who's watching.

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $5/$5
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $460.00
UTG+1: $259.00
MP1: $350.00
MP2: $1.723.55
MP3: $394.00
CO: $500.00
hero: $389.50
SB: $495.00
BB: $648.00

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $30</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $140</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($570, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB is all-in $508</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 calls all-in $254</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero calls all-in $249.5</font>.
Uncalled bets: $254 returned to BB.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1323, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $1318.5, Sidepot 1: $9)

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1323, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $1318.5, Sidepot 1: $9)

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

ummmmmmm, lol.

picture this in a sammy farha voice:

"wow, you are really gambling"


ummmmmm, now for the sqwisssssss answer:

nice read on the situation and players but this still seems kind of thin.

when i look at a situation and it feels like i'm "gambling", i muck. hmmmmm, 3 way action with some equity too, but not much though...........hmmmmmm, not enough.

i dont like it but i'll keep an open mind. maybe i'll learn something.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

wazz, let me ask you something. would you rather have nut straight with no other possible outs on this flop or your hand?

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

What kind of question is that? I'll take nut straight in a heartbeat, alex.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

The pre-flop action seems pointless to me since you have position.Maybe you can enlighten me as to why you'd do that?

I call the flop and then laugh hysterically at the runner runner baby straight that scoops.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

I don't like preflop unless you expect to get it HU pretty much 100% of the time. Since the BB is too loose and probably overcalls constantly, just call the initial raise and play postflop.

The flop is simply a matter of you got yourself into this situation and now you have to call.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of question is that? I'll take nut straight in a heartbeat, alex.

[/ QUOTE ]

i assure you my name is not alex. why do you say that?

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

I'm psychic, which is also how I knew I had the best hand preflop.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like preflop unless you expect to get it HU pretty much 100% of the time. Since the BB is too loose and probably overcalls constantly, just call the initial raise and play postflop.

The flop is simply a matter of you got yourself into this situation and now you have to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously rempel, is a call a must here? equity is thin, hand is thin........opponents being donkish is the only thing that makes the call possible but even so.........

is the call mostly based on the opponents here?

i know if i'm one of the guys pushing, wazz would be in big trouble calling with his hand.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

we have to call. our flush draw may would be good and gutshot with such big pot makes some sense with it.

though, i dont like preflop. qq is dominated

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

Calling when you don't have live outs is a small mistake. Folding when you do is a huge mistake.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

well, my thoughts are if op's hand is up against a better flush and nut straight..........big trouble.

this situation is very very possible.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Calling when you don't have live outs is a small mistake. Folding when you do is a huge mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmmmm, you gave me something to ponder for the next few days.

i have many questions and i dont know where to begin.

if op just "smooth called" pre flop and the flop action was the same.........call?

i know the bet sizes wouldnt be the same because the pot is not as big but bb bets pot, next guy raises all in........op call off???????

if the answer is no, then the original scenario of calling off would be based on equity..........equity seems rather thin though vs. the flop action.

jesus, i'm lost. i feel like a stone cold rookie now. years of playing and this situation seems rather spewey to me.

i dont know.

i'm going to read over the hand again and crunch some numbers. this hand even with some live outs instinctively doesnt feel right........but i'd hate to be making a big mistake by not calling.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

When Wazz's flush/straight draw isn't live he's going to be about 5-10% on the flop getting 4:1 so he's going to lose $100-$200 or so calling the flop.

When he is live he's going to be anywhere from 30-40% which would mean folding would cost close to $500 in equity.

$500&gt;$200 so folding is bad without some huge read.

Make sense now?

Obviously it's going to be a tricky spot on the flop if he just calls the raise. If he calls a flop bet and it gets raised behind him it's a pretty clear fold because his opponents have defined their hands much more.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

Results are, quite frankly, incredible. In white if you don't want to see them before replying:

<font color="#ffffff">BB shows AC QC JH KD </font>
<font color="#ffffff">MP3 shows 5S 6S 6C JC
Giving me the best hand, the best draw, and a whopping 62% equity!!!!</font>

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

Lol. I almost added in that last post 'some small percentage of the time he's going to be a huge favorite with an overpair, flush draw and blockers'.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
When Wazz's flush/straight draw isn't live he's going to be about 5-10% on the flop getting 4:1 so he's going to lose $100-$200 or so calling the flop.

When he is live he's going to be anywhere from 30-40% which would mean folding would cost close to $500 in equity.

$500&gt;$200 so folding is bad without some huge read.

Make sense now?

Obviously it's going to be a tricky spot on the flop if he just calls the raise. If he calls a flop bet and it gets raised behind him it's a pretty clear fold because his opponents have defined their hands much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i just re read the hand.

the numbers are good. getting over 5/1 to make the call against a couple of maniacs.

i was watching the crazy end of monday night football mixed with high stakes poker on GSN and then read wazz's seemingly maniacal hand here with out really reading the numbers. on the surface, the hand seemed crazy........and it was......... but i ignored the numbers.

i'll stick my money in here all day.

by the way rempel, thanks for pointing out about the bb being an aggressive caller. i'll remember that next time i'm in a situation like op's. i too sometimes like to 3 bet frequent raisers if i have position and i feel i'm ahead of their range.........but strictly to isolate. i hate it when someone crashes my parties.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

lol, i just saw the results. did i say this hand seemed crazy?

like my father once told me, "you never been right about anything"

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

jesus, did i say 5/1?

4/1!!!!!!!!

warning: please, no one listen to my replies. i'm an idiot.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

That's all great, I'm all for a bit of a gamble against certain players, but I don't understand the action pre flop on the button with a hand too easily dominated. The flop is a total no brainer. The original raiser isn't one of your so called maniac villains.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

Wazz, i think you should do a Well

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's all great, I'm all for a bit of a gamble against certain players, but I don't understand the action pre flop on the button with a hand too easily dominated. The flop is a total no brainer. The original raiser isn't one of your so called maniac villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is that on these tables queens rate to be good enough to make this preflop move profitable.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's all great, I'm all for a bit of a gamble against certain players, but I don't understand the action pre flop on the button with a hand too easily dominated. The flop is a total no brainer. The original raiser isn't one of your so called maniac villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is that on these tables queens rate to be good enough to make this preflop move profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like some of the 5 handed tables at my level lol.

Re: Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot
 

wazz, why dont you also post these hand scenarios when it ends up in disaster?............like it usually does:)