Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

So she's back in rehab for the 2nd time this year, after a weekend where she jumped a curb and got a DUI, and then passed out in a friends car the next day.

So in general...

Does rehab really work for these troubled young stars? and why do they get themselves into so much trouble in the first place?

They have enough money to do whatever they want, yet they choose to get wasted and drive drunk, etc. Why don't they just hire chauffer's to drive them around, or bodyguards to keep them from drinking too much?

What's the real deal, why are they focused on partying and not expanding their careers?

Does all this success at a young age, really lead to depression?

Can The Loungers provide some thoughtful answers...

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

There's rehab and there's "rehab". What Lohan is doing is most likely "rehab", as in, "Please don't throw me in jail, I'm in "rehab", I promise to be good". Then as soon as she can, she's back on the goodies. Don't think for one minute she's there to get clean and sober.

Sadly, I think the only thing that will clean up some of the Ritchie-Hilton-Spears-Lohan or their pale imitators crowd will be for one of them to die.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

People make big deals of DUI when it happens to celebrities, especially young starlets.

Normally, people that get a DUI dont have to worry about it being in the paper.

As far as her career goes i think she has done okay so far, and will continue so.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]


Sadly, I think the only thing that will clean up some of the Ritchie-Hilton-Spears-Lohan or their pale imitators crowd will be for one of them to die.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is likely to only clean up the one that dies.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

I want to know what rehab is all about. I used to think it meant that you went away to some facility and were locked up for like 6 weeks. I thought it was a fairly restrictive treatment program. Now I see celebs like Britney Spears going into rehab for only a few days before leaving to go to clubs and restaurants. Was she in some kind of outpatient rehab or something? I guess there are different definitions of rehab.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

katy, its something like going to a country club, but with doctors and psychs around, daily massages and all that [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

When Lohan went in January, she was out every day working on her movie, which seems kind of strange.

She was supposed to start work on another film this week, so we'll see how that goes.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]


What's the real deal, why are they focused on partying and not expanding their careers?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's really difficult for actors and recording artists to expand their careers. Hollywood is so competitive. There's always a new rising star and fresh face coming on the scene. Think about it, even the best actresses have trouble finding films. You would walk around constantly knowing that you were replaceable. I think this kind of stress and uncertainty would make anyone want to party. Anyway, celebs enjoy their fame so much they want to continue to be chased by the paparazzi. Going out clubbing is one way to get that attention and stay in the public eye.

Which leads to my question, why do so many bright people do prescription drugs and alcohol? I've known people in my life who did this and they were extremely bright, articulate people. They were really into pill popping. Anyone on here want to tell me why smart people do this?

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

If you're not too bright, you're cut off from some types of pain that others have easier access to. Also, pain in general is accessible to everyone, so being smart doesn't exempt you. You could still have had a crummy childhood, developed neuroses, been economically limited, be lonely, be bi-polar, grow up in an environment that strongly encouraged drug and/or alcohol abuse, etc. That kind of thing leads to people self-medicating. Smart people are at least as likely to feel psychological pain. Apparently there have been studies showing that realistic people are more likely to be depressive. It seems fair to say that smarter people tend to be more realistic. Thus, depressive.

The other day, some doctor on CNN was talking about Lohan's rehab and his clinic, and he and another doctor were saying alcoholism isn't a disease at all, but is caused by people feeling lonely, taking steps backwards in life, undergoing repeated traumas, all kinds of psychologically very gripping things. They then tend to self-medicate.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone on here want to tell me why smart people do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general the very bright are not different in matters of ethics from a person within normal parameters of intelligence. You must think abou it like this, the pain of a smart person, and that of a dumb one is the same qualitatively. The absolute bliss of a productive genius is the same in characteristic as that of a blithering idiot.

It is in terms of our emotions that humanity is said to be a community.

Cam

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

I've always thought that if a close friend or family member was going through such issues, and if i had the money, I would simply take them to a remote location for three or four months. A location that was naturally beautiful, and have them stay within a comfortable two bedroom house.

All these rehab places are a joke because they're merely resorts with limp-wristed counseling (from an outsiders opinion, i guess i should say). I understand there are health ramifications with a cold turkey method, but I think most cases would do just fine.

Think "Trainspotting". Keep them in a basic room, with books they like and a full bathroom. Constantly watch them for a week or so, then open the rest of the house to them with even more amenities (better meals, more entertainment, and more room to lounge), after another week bring them outside to enjoy nature (hiking, swimming, fishing, etc.)

Ultimately, her parents are pretty ridiculous (i hear they have serious problems in their own right) and deserve as much vitriol as Lindsay is getting.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone on here want to tell me why smart people do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general the very bright are not different in matters of ethics from a person within normal parameters of intelligence. You must think abou it like this, the pain of a smart person, and that of a dumb one is the same qualitatively. The absolute bliss of a productive genius is the same in characteristic as that of a blithering idiot.

It is in terms of our emotions that humanity is said to be a community.

Cam

[/ QUOTE ]

I never really considered this as an ethical question, and it still doesn't seem one to me now that you've mentioned that angle.

I disagree that people with fewer perceptive powers can perceive exactly what those with greater perceptive powers perceive. This is borne out in real life all the time. That said, ignorance is bliss has a strong basis in truth.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Going cold Turkey can be dangerous from a health view. Cocain withdrawl can send you body into shock which is why they use meds to keep your BP stable. As far taking someone away, that will flush out their system but will not help them stay clean. Useually there are underlying reasons someone ends up a junkie and a drunck. Until someone looks at why they use or drink they will tend to fkeep going back to it.
I had a real nasty coke/booze/everything and anything habit and ended up in rehab for 28 days (standard duration). After detoxing and clearing my mind out I was able to deal with somethings in my life I needed to deal with and really look at what I had become. Most of us do not get a chance to drop out of life for 28 days and really look at where we are, rehab gave me the chance to do this and 9 years later still clean and sober. Now if i could just get rid of the habit of donking off chips I would be all set.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Not to make more of your little joke than necessary, but I agree that drugs/booze are usually done to address a problem, and until that problem is figured out and people can live with it, they'll keep trying to escape it with drugs/booze/gambling, whatever. Some people just go from one addiction to another, the underlying problem being a need to get through the day by resorting to something whose byproducts are addiction rather than any specific drug or habit itself.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

I have a simple theory on this.

You don't have to be smart to be an Actor/Star, you just have to be able to act or do whatever it is you do to be considered a "Star". I would venture to say that a lot of these star kids are in fact stupid! Then on top of being stupid they end up with a combination of having WAY too much money and all kinds of people kissing their ass all the time. Young stars do not have any real life experience and partying is FUN and all of a sudden you have idiots behaving like idiots and we all hear about it because we care way too much about these peoples personal lives.

Yes, I know smart people can be addicts. But I really think a lot of these "Stars" and rehab is just a joke to cover for a personality flaw when they end up busted.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

This is only for myself as far as drug/gambling i have never found the two to relate. I play BJ, craps and other table games on rare occassions but the juice people get from it has never been there for me. I enjoy poker becasue of the thought, skill and strategy involved. With drugs i was into the stuff that got you revved up so you would think the two would coincide, but not for me. The chip thing was a throw away joke, althoguh prooable a bad place to use it inregards to the context of the post.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've always thought that if a close friend or family member was going through such issues, and if i had the money, I would simply take them to a remote location for three or four months. A location that was naturally beautiful, and have them stay within a comfortable two bedroom house.

All these rehab places are a joke because they're merely resorts with limp-wristed counseling (from an outsiders opinion, i guess i should say). I understand there are health ramifications with a cold turkey method, but I think most cases would do just fine.

Think "Trainspotting". Keep them in a basic room, with books they like and a full bathroom. Constantly watch them for a week or so, then open the rest of the house to them with even more amenities (better meals, more entertainment, and more room to lounge), after another week bring them outside to enjoy nature (hiking, swimming, fishing, etc.)

Ultimately, her parents are pretty ridiculous (i hear they have serious problems in their own right) and deserve as much vitriol as Lindsay is getting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that sometimes turning your back on a friend can be more helpful for recovery. If you're always there for them, they know that you will get them out of any problem, hence they don't care about rehab, but if you turn your back, they feel bad about losing a great friend and try harder at rehab. At least that's what happened with Jason Mewes (Kevin Smith's friend) according to Kevin Smith's blog. Of course this sort of thing probably depends on the people (like for some this technique wouldn't work).

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

TL, DR.

They tried to make me go to rehab
But I said no (no, no)
Yes, I've been black
But when I come back, you'll know (know, know)

I ain't got the time
And if my mama thinks I'm fine

They can try and make me rehab
But I wont go (go, go)

I Didn't get a lot in class
But I know it didn't come in a shot glass

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is only for myself as far as drug/gambling i have never found the two to relate. I play BJ, craps and other table games on rare occassions but the juice people get from it has never been there for me. I enjoy poker becasue of the thought, skill and strategy involved. With drugs i was into the stuff that got you revved up so you would think the two would coincide, but not for me. The chip thing was a throw away joke, althoguh prooable a bad place to use it inregards to the context of the post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at some of the writing about gambling, and it's an addictive behavior that fulfills the same kind of needs other addictive behavior fills.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]

Ultimately, her parents are pretty ridiculous (i hear they have serious problems in their own right) and deserve as much vitriol as Lindsay is getting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Her dad seems like a loose canon. But can we blame the parents for the antics of a 20 yr old? I'm not sure about this.

I always thought the same way as you, that if I had a close family member who was an addict I would take them far away to a beautiful island and just remove them from their situation. But then I read up on rehab and I now see how this approach might fail to address some important points.

From what I read, one of the main components of rehab is sharing your story with other addicts. The more you hear other addicts talk about their problem, the more you see how you resemble that person and hopefully your eyes will be opened.

Some common goals listed for rehab are - identifying your "triggers", learning coping skills, setting your own personal goals and learning how to identify positive healthy people to surround yourself with. These all seem like worthy goals. Now how talented the people are at the rehab clinics is another question.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

i think you guys started wrong. The people around her do not want her to get clean anymore than she wants to get clean. The problem with these young up and coming stars is that they are given anything they want and are often very impressionable to fit in.
One of my best friends is on the verge of getting a major recording deal, and is an alcholic/does a fair amount of drugs. People dance around him so much, his managment people get in touch with me to see how hes doing. The people that work for her want to stay working for her,and that is probably there main intrest. Anything goes in that buissness. Keith richards has been a drug addict fo years and noone demonizes him. As long as shes sucessful, and can boost you tv show ratings, and sell your product they want her.
Im disgusted by 95% or more of the "music indusrty" i have met, so maybe im alittle bitter. But i really doubt anybody is trying to get her to change

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone on here want to tell me why smart people do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general the very bright are not different in matters of ethics from a person within normal parameters of intelligence. You must think abou it like this, the pain of a smart person, and that of a dumb one is the same qualitatively. The absolute bliss of a productive genius is the same in characteristic as that of a blithering idiot.

It is in terms of our emotions that humanity is said to be a community.

Cam

[/ QUOTE ]

I never really considered this as an ethical question, and it still doesn't seem one to me now that you've mentioned that angle.

I disagree that people with fewer perceptive powers can perceive exactly what those with greater perceptive powers perceive. This is borne out in real life all the time. That said, ignorance is bliss has a strong basis in truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

The old maxim "Ignorance is bliss" indeed has a strong basis in truth. Doestoevsky said, to paraphrase, that a smart person will have a natural tendency toward sadness because, unlike the average working class idiot, they realize just how deep the [censored] they are in is.
However, greater powers of perception and higher levels of intelligence are not the same thing. Intelligence can be seen as a malleable entity, not a static system like a car engine where the oil pressure will be such and such a value, and the gear ratio will be at some other value. IQ is one of the terms used by psychometricists to quantify their science; it is not a purely objective thing as say your abilities of hearing are.

The decision to do or not to do some drug seems to me to be an ethical situation. I see every situation where there is an oppurtunity to use one's power of decision as an ethical situation. How on earth could you say this isn;t one? I have an extremely addictive personality, and thankfully was scared away from hard drugs by the death of my father from drugs, this and watching my mother act like she was out of her mind told me clearly that it was not for me.

That said, I just fill in one thing for another. I simply try to be engaged in things that are not by their own nature destructive. I have actually been obsessed with religion as a child. Th addiction to study and prayer was destructive, but less so than the lure of illicit drugs. Now I am buffeted from one thing to another, and trying to make some sort of decent time of it.

I have to go back to work now

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ultimately, her parents are pretty ridiculous (i hear they have serious problems in their own right) and deserve as much vitriol as Lindsay is getting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Her dad seems like a loose canon. But can we blame the parents for the antics of a 20 yr old? I'm not sure about this.

I always thought the same way as you, that if I had a close family member who was an addict I would take them far away to a beautiful island and just remove them from their situation. But then I read up on rehab and I now see how this approach might fail to address some important points.

From what I read, one of the main components of rehab is sharing your story with other addicts. The more you hear other addicts talk about their problem, the more you see how you resemble that person and hopefully your eyes will be opened.

Some common goals listed for rehab are - identifying your "triggers", learning coping skills, setting your own personal goals and learning how to identify positive healthy people to surround yourself with. These all seem like worthy goals. Now how talented the people are at the rehab clinics is another question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Her mom is also pretty crazy, you dont have a normal mother/daughter social dynamic when the mother is living off the daughter. Also add the fact that the daughter is living the mothers dream and that the mother introduces herself as Lindsay friend often times, and you have a glimpse of the wacky family this is.

The dad is messed up too.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]

However, greater powers of perception and higher levels of intelligence are not the same thing. Intelligence can be seen as a malleable entity, not a static system like a car engine where the oil pressure will be such and such a value, and the gear ratio will be at some other value. IQ is one of the terms used by psychometricists to quantify their science; it is not a purely objective thing as say your abilities of hearing are.

The decision to do or not to do some drug seems to me to be an ethical situation. I see every situation where there is an oppurtunity to use one's power of decision as an ethical situation. How on earth could you say this isn;t one? I have an extremely addictive personality, and thankfully was scared away from hard drugs by the death of my father from drugs, this and watching my mother act like she was out of her mind told me clearly that it was not for me.



[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting post. I appreciate hearing your take on this question. Like I said, I know several highly intelligent people who enjoy pill popping and mixing pills with alcohol. I have never understood why they would do such a risky thing. It doesn't take much education at all to understand the danger of overusing prescription drugs and yet many people do it. Many extremely smart people. I'm with Blarg though, I'm not sure I associate ethics with this behavior.


I'm not a pill popper. I have a huge distrust of pills. I'm freaked out by the continuing practice of doctors to over prescribe medicine to patients. I'm also weirded out by my friends, both in real life and also on the internet, who pop pills like they were candy, who get excited about getting their hands on someone else's pain pills like oxycontin (or, alternatively, Ambien or muscle relaxers or whatever the case may be).

I would bet there are quite a few bright 2+2 posters who are pill poppers. In my experience it is more often bright men who do this. Now why is that? As for girls, I guess I always thought only dumb girls did this but then again isn't Lindsay Lohan supposed to be bright? And Winona Ryder is supposed to be bright too. Hmm. What does it all mean? I think my sample size is too small.

You associate the practice with lack of ethics and has nothing at all to do with IQ. Interesting. My point was that if you are so smart, theoretically wouldn't you realize the consequences of mixing drugs with alcohol?

Maybe bright pill popping guys are tortured souls, self medicating to calm their over active minds or maybe they are bored addicts who need some kind of buzz in their life to make them feel more alive. Not sure. I would hope that a genius would be worried about destroying his body.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

I have met Lindsay Lohan.

I also live and work in Hollywood. Although many think that actors and performers are stupid, this is far from the case. There is no a way an idiot can make it in this city, nor have anything that resembles longetivity. They may act stupid, but it is probably an act. Some of the smartest people I have ever met act stupid: I think it is because they are trying to fit in with the rest of the flock.

Rehab does work. The problem is that it is like any other social-fixing institution (homeless, prison recovery). The old saying is that god only helps those that help themselves, and that is true of rehab. I helped a woman move who just came out of rehab a few years back. She was 35 or so. She said that the problem is that parents send their kids to rehab because they over-react. The fact is that many of these kids probably haven't partied more than anyone on this forum, but for some people who where born with too much money, thinking that there kid had more than one beer last night is alcoholism. In the end rehab will not work for any one who is not ready for it. Rehab is basically jail. You are not able to do prison/jail time for doing drugs.

Lindsay Lohan has been acting since she was a child. I have met actor-mothers before, they are crazy, sometimes giving their kids movie star names. I was on set one time and I was about ready to beat the **** out of an eight year old. A few other people and I told the mother that she cannot let her children behave like this, of coarse, we were the wrong ones here.

What is Lindsay like? She's actually very nice. Be rest assured that if she was rude, she would never be able to work with the likes of Rober Altman.

I am not attempting to make excuses for her, I just doubt that that she parties as much as people say she does.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

The June 11th issue of People mag cover story...

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6...ylohan7as4.jpg

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Saw that yesterday. Kinda creepy.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have met Lindsay Lohan.

I also live and work in Hollywood. Although many think that actors and performers are stupid, this is far from the case. There is no a way an idiot can make it in this city, nor have anything that resembles longetivity. They may act stupid, but it is probably an act. Some of the smartest people I have ever met act stupid: I think it is because they are trying to fit in with the rest of the flock.

Rehab does work. The problem is that it is like any other social-fixing institution (homeless, prison recovery). The old saying is that god only helps those that help themselves, and that is true of rehab. I helped a woman move who just came out of rehab a few years back. She was 35 or so. She said that the problem is that parents send their kids to rehab because they over-react. The fact is that many of these kids probably haven't partied more than anyone on this forum, but for some people who where born with too much money, thinking that there kid had more than one beer last night is alcoholism. In the end rehab will not work for any one who is not ready for it. Rehab is basically jail. You are not able to do prison/jail time for doing drugs.

Lindsay Lohan has been acting since she was a child. I have met actor-mothers before, they are crazy, sometimes giving their kids movie star names. I was on set one time and I was about ready to beat the **** out of an eight year old. A few other people and I told the mother that she cannot let her children behave like this, of coarse, we were the wrong ones here.

What is Lindsay like? She's actually very nice. Be rest assured that if she was rude, she would never be able to work with the likes of Rober Altman.

I am not attempting to make excuses for her, I just doubt that that she parties as much as people say she does.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact is whatever she is doing, she is doing it very well. Look at any magazine, any gossip website and its going to be Paris or Lohan somewhere on the cover.
Sort of going off topic but with all this hullabaloo about Paris going to jail I was wondering how much money she is going to make from this?
I heard somewhere that she owns a vast majority of stock images of herself, so when she appears in a magazine she makes money

She WILL sell her story for a large sum when she gets out

She has gained more column inches than any event in the last few years (that I can think of) and, as the saying goes; all publicity is good publicity, just think how Hugh Grants career exploded after his indecent conduct conviction

It seems that these stars know the value of being in the News all the time, I dont know if I am being overly cynical but it seems highly convenient that Lohan is going "back to rehab" so close to the time Paris is going to jail, perhaps an attempt to steal some of the limelight ??

I dont know if anyone has seen these highly attractive and slightly disturbing Lohan images that have been circling the web recently, I guess slightly NSFW so Im linking them but (hopfully) not too NSFW for The Lounge

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1193/3012ll70br6.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/783/3014ll31nl6.jpg

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rehab is basically jail

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is true, based on what I have read. The top of the line places like where Lindsay is, seem more like going to school to learn how to get better.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

According to her father, in addition to alchohol, she's also addicted to Oxycontin.

Has anyone here taken this drug?

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting post. I appreciate hearing your take on this question. Like I said, I know several highly intelligent people who enjoy pill popping and mixing pills with alcohol. I have never understood why they would do such a risky thing. It doesn't take much education at all to understand the danger of overusing prescription drugs and yet many people do it. Many extremely smart people. I'm with Blarg though, I'm not sure I associate ethics with this behavior.


I'm not a pill popper. I have a huge distrust of pills. I'm freaked out by the continuing practice of doctors to over prescribe medicine to patients. I'm also weirded out by my friends, both in real life and also on the internet, who pop pills like they were candy, who get excited about getting their hands on someone else's pain pills like oxycontin (or, alternatively, Ambien or muscle relaxers or whatever the case may be).

I would bet there are quite a few bright 2+2 posters who are pill poppers. In my experience it is more often bright men who do this. Now why is that? As for girls, I guess I always thought only dumb girls did this but then again isn't Lindsay Lohan supposed to be bright? And Winona Ryder is supposed to be bright too. Hmm. What does it all mean? I think my sample size is too small.

You associate the practice with lack of ethics and has nothing at all to do with IQ. Interesting. My point was that if you are so smart, theoretically wouldn't you realize the consequences of mixing drugs with alcohol?

Maybe bright pill popping guys are tortured souls, self medicating to calm their over active minds or maybe they are bored addicts who need some kind of buzz in their life to make them feel more alive. Not sure. I would hope that a genius would be worried about destroying his body.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you mean that intelligent people should be able to asses the risks and avoid doing stupid things, i.e. hard drugs. But that logic only really applies to logical beings, not humans.

Humans take risks all the time, there is something inherently human in going too far, pushing boundaries and making mistakes. We've all heard the studies about seat belt wearing - when it becomes mandatory in a country/state people are more likely to have worse accidents as their increased feeling of safety causes them to drive faster/take more risks etc. They adapt to their safer enviroment and take more risks. I think there have been many studies which show that people do this instinctively.

We're driven by far more than a rational/logical brain and make mistakes accordingly. Horny guys offered sex on a plate will often take it if they think they can get away with it, they may even enjoy the thought of getting caught (did Clinton, the most guarded man on the planet, think those around him didn't get that he was banging an intern?) Drugs are easy to take and, come on, those bad things will never happen to us!

I wonder if the more active your brain is (and possibly having a higher IQ), the more likely you are to take drugs or take silly risks that in hindsight look stupid. If humans need to push boundaries, the more active brain will surely seek the further boundaries to push against? Of course, we have various checks and safeguards built within society to stop you going too far and many of us have ethical standpoints that prevent us doing much of what I've described (after all, you have to break the speed law to increase your risk while wearing a seat belt, or drive recklessly). Compare that to someone who lives in a world where many of societies rules don't seem to apply, or least those people, the Lohan's and Hilton's live with the impression that don't. Add in a few hangers-on who will get them what they want, when they want it. Slippery slope.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Sniper,

I know two people who do oxycontin and it weirds me out. They are such intelligent exceptional individuals. Everyone who knows them can tell they have such promise and unique offerings and yet they seem either bored or very troubled. Obviously it's addictive as hell. When I urged one of them to seek treatment, he goes "that will never happen." Really sad in my mind but he certainly didn't see it that way.


Context -

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if the more active your brain is (and possibly having a higher IQ), the more likely you are to take drugs or take silly risks that in hindsight look stupid. If humans need to push boundaries, the more active brain will surely seek the further boundaries to push against?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've wondered this myself. Basically I've given up trying to figure it out but the only conclusion I can come to is that the brain is incomprehensible. There are different kinds of intelligence. One of the smartest guys I know is a total pot addict and prescription pill popper. We can talk to him 'til we're blue in the face and it has no impact. He's probably a genius in IQ. His parents are really frustrated with him because he refuses to get a job and yet he is clearly no idiot. I've decided that I need to stop asking myself why an intelligent guy would choose to abuse drugs. The areas of the brain that govern this kind of decision making process seem to be separate from the area of the brain that is logical.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

katy, have they described the experience to you?

As I understand it, oxycoontin is a pain killer, with possibly euphoric effects.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

On Britney Spears website, in a letter to fans, she describes rehab as a humbling place. But she doesn't think she was there for alchohol or depression, she thinks she was just "a bad kid running around with ADD".

Sounds like she has more work to do.

Nicole Richie is apparently also in an outpatient program.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
katy, have they described the experience to you?

As I understand it, oxycoontin is a pain killer, with possibly euphoric effects.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not really described it. But i've gathered it has euphoric effects from the way they act. want me to tell you a typical convo with them? i could cuz i've had enough beer to probably reenact it.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
katy, have they described the experience to you?

As I understand it, oxycoontin is a pain killer, with possibly euphoric effects.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not really described it. But i've gathered it has euphoric effects from the way they act. want me to tell you a typical convo with them? i could cuz i've had enough beer to probably reenact it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go Go Go...

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

On Britney Spears website, in a letter to fans, she describes rehab as a humbling place.

She's now dating her rehab counselor. Go figure...

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

I've just been skimming this thread, but the argument that smart people are inherently better able to feel pain or dispair or whatever really, really irks me. I don't see how being intelligent has any real impact on your outlook on life or your ability to feel pain, and honestly it always sounds like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo thrown around by "smart" people to make themselves feel better when they get depressed or something. "I'm depressed because I'm smart" just sounds like more lame excuses for not fixing your life or taking charge of a situation.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

You're probably making too much of it. Look at it this way -- the more you expose yourself to life in any form, the greater chance of taking damage. That goes for anything from thinking to bungee jumping to taking that long walk across the gym in high school and asking that cute girl to dance. You cannot expose yourself more and risk less.

I'm sure you yourself have found some issues and developments at some point interesting, alarming, or maybe distressing or depressing, only to find some people you know blessedly indifferent or ignorant of those issues and developments and thus unable to get bothered about them. Heck, maybe even after explaining those matters to them, they still wound up incapable of realizing their importance because they couldn't think long-term, truly understand the implications, or be bothered to care for anything that didn't immediately impact upon them, right in their face in the most overt manner. Being closed off to certain thoughts and experiences can save you from a lot of distress and unhappiness.

Take a job situation as another example. Two reasonably ambitious guys in the identical job. Who do you think is happier, the guy who thinks he has a future in the job, or the guy who, for the sake of this example, correctly understands that it's a dead-end?

I suppose I could have said all of that as "ignorance is bliss," but since it's such a simple concept that for some reason wasn't working for you, I guess I felt I had to be more explicit.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

You're equating a lack of sympathy or people being douches with people who are dumb. And the two guys example is silly, one of them already hates his job and the other one will soon, no one feels less pain or anything, just different types.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've just been skimming this thread, but the argument that smart people are inherently better able to feel pain or dispair or whatever really, really irks me. I don't see how being intelligent has any real impact on your outlook on life or your ability to feel pain, and honestly it always sounds like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo thrown around by "smart" people to make themselves feel better when they get depressed or something. "I'm depressed because I'm smart" just sounds like more lame excuses for not fixing your life or taking charge of a situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right and wrong here; correct in your assertion that all people feel sadness the same, and the only variant is the degree. That said, despondence is just as painful to a less intelligent individual as a smart one. My elation at a new lover will probably feel just like anyone else's, and vice versa. The euphoria we all feel is euphoria, the characteristic is delerious joy. The horrible life shattering pain of significant personal loss would leave a genius in despair just as much as a retarded person. In this point you have a meritorious argument, but I sense your understanding stops there. Perhaps we can better avail you of the knowledge of this concept.

It seems that a risk averse nature, if not the rule, is then at least quite prevalent for those of extreme intelligence. The reason for this is nuanced; by being possessive of greater powers of apprehension and extrapolation, the intelligent can better sense the impending disadvantages in every course of action. That said, consider also that another prevalent characteristic in the pathology of the aware is that they are often very insecure. The template for this is the eccentric math professor who stares at his shoes and reads the book aloud in lieu of actually teaching. The intersection of these two qualities produces a situation wich is conducive to the dimunition of initiative that a prosaic man simply can not relate to.
The uncertainty contained in a certain situation will affect one's mind in a way that can be understood by simple analysis in terms of the two aforementioned qualities. In a situation where there is a large amount of uncertainty, an intelligent person may well grasp the nature of the situation, but as a result of being risk averse and insecure, action is arrested. Plato's republic can largely be explained by one quote. "The better part of human wisdon is what we do with our uncertainty, not with our knowledge."

Smart individuals, due to idiosyncratic aspects of their personality can not, on the average, deal with these situations as well, that is, they cannot deal with uncertainty. I must cut this off in order to return to work, but consider how what I have said "levels the field".

Often much is made of a person's apparent transcendent understanding, but this is not always as valuable in utility as most individuals within normal parameters of intelligence would surmise.

My apologies for the rambling incoherency of this post, hopefully this helps.

Cam