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-   -   Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=557645)

FionnMac 11-30-2007 12:24 AM

Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
Villain is fishy 40/13 over a small sample, no other reads. Thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

MP ($587.50)
Button ($1164.40)
SB ($170.50)
BB ($625.15)
Hero ($707.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $18.

Flop: ($51) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $102</font>, Hero calls $62.

Turn: ($255) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB calls $499.15 (All-In), Hero calls $499.15

Melchiades 11-30-2007 12:38 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
You'll see 88/66 a fair amount here I think.

rand 11-30-2007 12:52 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
this is bad
i think a bluff would have raised bigger on the flop
...hope a diamond hits imo

raze 11-30-2007 01:04 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I think you're getting value raped on the whole.

dagreez 11-30-2007 01:16 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
don't think he's c/ring the flop with a flush draw or like 57 so he's got AQ maybe with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or a set imo.

STA654 11-30-2007 01:19 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
Does he have a ridiculously high AF? if not this is bad imo.

stackingboxes 11-30-2007 01:21 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I really don't understand this.

why don't u just push the flop if u think u'r good.

when the biggest scare card comes, u decide to call a massive bet.

jfish 11-30-2007 01:24 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
nh.

DefiNe 11-30-2007 01:24 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand this.

why don't u just push the flop if u think u'r good.

when the biggest scare card comes, u decide to call a massive bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

2d "biggest scare-card"? if he's bluffing and we call this line allows him to hang himself, if he's got worse he can get away from it on the Flop if we shove.

RollinHand 11-30-2007 01:28 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
Bleh... but who knows maybe you got lucky and he had the A of diamonds.

RockyElsom 11-30-2007 01:29 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
Well played. You still have redraws against some stuff, and donks make stupid random bluffs here soooo much.

philipsaurus 11-30-2007 01:54 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
meh, i call.

stackingboxes 11-30-2007 01:56 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand this.

why don't u just push the flop if u think u'r good.

when the biggest scare card comes, u decide to call a massive bet.

[/ QUOTE ]



2d "biggest scare-card"? if he's bluffing and we call this line allows him to hang himself, if he's got worse he can get away from it on the Flop if we shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it wasn't clear, but I meant a diamond, not 2d specifically as being a scare card. do u REALLY think he CR bluffs this flop with air as often as he does with flush draw and sets?

wheelz 11-30-2007 02:39 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
i'm more afraid of AQ than a flush or set

jambon 11-30-2007 02:55 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
looks like a fold to me, sets, AQ, AA, KK, flushes i can all see randomly played like this, we dont beat a whole lot but straight up bluffs, Ad (real unlikely) and maybe worse Qs if hes a real crazy fish, and we have to be good a lot with the overbet

terp 11-30-2007 03:22 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
small c/r + overbet shoves are bluffs a lot

either way you have enough equity against his range. i like

FionnMac 11-30-2007 06:34 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
nh.

[/ QUOTE ]

ty, expand?

FionnMac 11-30-2007 09:59 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
those of you who are saying fold suck, villain was drawing to 2 outs here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

note to party regs: do not bluff me or you will lose, k thx

docnuclear 11-30-2007 10:01 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I suck....

blankoblanco 11-30-2007 10:06 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
those of you who are saying fold suck, villain was drawing to 2 outs here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

note to party regs: do not bluff me or you will lose, k thx

[/ QUOTE ]

so he was in fact bluffing (with a pocker pair i guess)? or did he go crazy with like QJ no diamond (which is obviously still a "bluff", basically, but some fish don't know better)

Bigfoot 11-30-2007 10:07 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
those of you who are saying fold suck, villain was drawing to 2 outs here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

note to party regs: do not bluff me or you will lose, k thx

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the way you played this hand and def think you took the best line. Call flop &gt; shoving flop like someone suggested.

TheMetetron 11-30-2007 10:10 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I mean this is pretty standard against retards. Why'd you post it?

TheMetetron 11-30-2007 10:11 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
You'll see 88/66 a fair amount here I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, please tell me you are joking.

FionnMac 11-30-2007 10:14 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
those of you who are saying fold suck, villain was drawing to 2 outs here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

note to party regs: do not bluff me or you will lose, k thx

[/ QUOTE ]

so he was in fact bluffing (with a pocker pair i guess)? or did he go crazy with like QJ no diamond (which is obviously still a "bluff", basically, but some fish don't know better)

[/ QUOTE ]

He had K2o. I think we see hands like the lone Ad or 57 alot, as well as semi-bluff shoves with one pair.

But i've never ever seen someone show up with a flush or a set here. I was more worried about a panicking 2 pair that doesn't want to bet and be put to a decision if i shove, or a slowplayed overpair. AQ is def possible although other queens are too.

FionnMac 11-30-2007 10:15 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
I mean this is pretty standard against retards. Why'd you post it?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty standard for me, i was just interested in seeing whether it was standard for 2p2 nits.

Melchiades 11-30-2007 10:26 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You'll see 88/66 a fair amount here I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, please tell me you are joking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, can't do that. See retards playing a set like that fairly often. When the flush come they simply have no idea what to do other than they don't wanna fold, so they push.

Sp00n 11-30-2007 11:44 AM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
6 combo's of 88/66, 1 million combo's of everything else fish could have. 6/1000000 is not a 'fair amount'.

Melchiades 11-30-2007 12:05 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I did not say fold. Just that when we are behind, I expect it to be those hands mostly.

BobbyLight 11-30-2007 12:10 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
When I saw the title of this thread I thought we would be in agreement. I believed it would be some wacko outright pushing the Q94 flop or something..the way this hand played out your beat pretty badly by his range (two pair,sets,a low flush that he's paranoid about getting drawn out by, AQ with the ace of diamonds).

This is a pretty quick fold.

fringsrache 11-30-2007 12:19 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
When I saw the title of this thread I thought we would be in agreement. I believed it would be some wacko outright pushing the Q94 flop or something..the way this hand played out your beat pretty badly by his range (two pair,sets,a low flush that he's paranoid about getting drawn out by, AQ with the ace of diamonds).

This is a pretty quick fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft.
just because hes a 43/10 (whatever) retard doenst justify stacking off here. u didnt provide any further read, and without that, this hand is a clear fold to me on the turn.

tozzy 11-30-2007 01:47 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
to all of you that say call, please add some sort of range or expand on what you think a donk's (albeit almost no statistical evidence for this assumption) intuition is here.

rand 11-30-2007 02:39 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
to me, from the player described (an AF would help) the small raise seems to be for value and then he shoves when the diamond hit "to stop another one from coming" to protect his hand not to bluff diamonds

jfish 11-30-2007 02:43 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
agree with melch, hes not wrong.

Renton 11-30-2007 02:51 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ ] "I don't think Party is as much easier than other sites as people think."

FionnMac 11-30-2007 03:25 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]
I did not say fold. Just that when we are behind, I expect it to be those hands mostly.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, so do you call or fold?

Melchiades 11-30-2007 03:31 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
I probably shake my head. Say to myself: "God I [censored] suck so bad, why do I have to be such a [censored] station? I have a draw though..." and press call.

It really does depend on what kind of fish I think villain is though, the preflop numbers don't tell the whole story here. I'm sure I can locate the fold button here sometimes.

donkeykong2 11-30-2007 03:32 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
from his preflop stats he doesnt seem like an aggro maniac he may have two pair though so a call might not be that horrible equity wise. i doubt you are ahead a lot here, i d definitely fold this.

blankoblanco 11-30-2007 04:52 PM

Re: Villain shoves for 2x pot but i have top pair so i call
 
[ QUOTE ]

But i've never ever seen someone show up with a flush or a set here. I was more worried about a panicking 2 pair that doesn't want to bet and be put to a decision if i shove, or a slowplayed overpair. AQ is def possible although other queens are too.

[/ QUOTE ]

just checking: if you didn't have the Qd, you would have folded, right?


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