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-   -   why does this forum care so much about religion (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=521521)

InTheDark 10-13-2007 07:08 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
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But surely you can use your imagination to come up with OTHER reasons and motivations that would be JUST AS harsh towards Stalin-like movements as Christian movements?



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Maybe, but I don't see any trace of such in existance at present. Also, it's damn hard for simple Christians to combat Stalin-like formations when they also battle the secular on a second front.

InTheDark 10-13-2007 07:12 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
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* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

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How convenient!

PS You must see the last century as very special for chritianity! LOL

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I see it as an absolute indictment of secular/atheist regimes VS Christian regimes. Only the blind or the deluded would believe otherwise.

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So the greatest country in the history of the world isn't favorable evidence for secular regimes? Or do you get to claim the US is in fact a Christian regime but somehow Hitler's Germany was not? I'd love to see how that argument goes.

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Usenet rule from 1986: All threads are over after Hitler has entered the debate.

InTheDark 10-13-2007 07:25 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
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* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

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"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." - Adolf Hitler in a speech in 1933.

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/Z/P/hitler19.jpg



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So if I understand your point, it's simply what I say and whom I stand next to, not what I do, upon which I'll be judged?

I'm certain you see how foolish your point is but I offer you a chance to pull this one out. Get out the New Testament and locate that passage or Gospel that would even tangentally suggest the extermination of all the Jews, Gypsies and ho.mosexuals and quote it here. Then you can put Hitler in the Christian column.

vhawk01 10-13-2007 10:40 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But surely you can use your imagination to come up with OTHER reasons and motivations that would be JUST AS harsh towards Stalin-like movements as Christian movements?



[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but I don't see any trace of such in existance at present. Also, it's damn hard for simple Christians to combat Stalin-like formations when they also battle the secular on a second front.

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So you think that the motivations that I have for wanting to maintain a secular US are motivations that will lead to the rise of a Stalin-like figure? Thats insane. Stalin's regime represented EXACTLY everything I fear about a religious regime, namely cultish irrationality and the absolute, unquestioned authority of one source.

vhawk01 10-13-2007 10:41 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

[/ QUOTE ]

How convenient!

PS You must see the last century as very special for chritianity! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I see it as an absolute indictment of secular/atheist regimes VS Christian regimes. Only the blind or the deluded would believe otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]


So the greatest country in the history of the world isn't favorable evidence for secular regimes? Or do you get to claim the US is in fact a Christian regime but somehow Hitler's Germany was not? I'd love to see how that argument goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usenet rule from 1986: All threads are over after Hitler has entered the debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he didn't enter the debate in my post, and you've talked about him before the post I made, so I'm not sure why you are running away and making excuses now. If you can't address my point thats fine but waiting to apply Godwin's Law until you've gotten all of the Hitler out of your system seems a little unfair. As a matter of fact, weren't you the FIRST one to bring up Hitler?

InTheDark 10-13-2007 10:50 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

[/ QUOTE ]

How convenient!

PS You must see the last century as very special for chritianity! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I see it as an absolute indictment of secular/atheist regimes VS Christian regimes. Only the blind or the deluded would believe otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]


So the greatest country in the history of the world isn't favorable evidence for secular regimes? Or do you get to claim the US is in fact a Christian regime but somehow Hitler's Germany was not? I'd love to see how that argument goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usenet rule from 1986: All threads are over after Hitler has entered the debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he didn't enter the debate in my post, and you've talked about him before the post I made, so I'm not sure why you are running away and making excuses now. If you can't address my point thats fine but waiting to apply Godwin's Law until you've gotten all of the Hitler out of your system seems a little unfair. As a matter of fact, weren't you the FIRST one to bring up Hitler?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the first to attempt to exclude Hitler from the debate. I should have known better. My goal was not possible.

tame_deuces 10-13-2007 10:55 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 

But atheism does not imply belief in a soviet communistic state? Your claim falls on that fallacy alone.

Tyrannies have been formed due to theism however.

vhawk01 10-13-2007 11:05 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

[/ QUOTE ]

How convenient!

PS You must see the last century as very special for chritianity! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I see it as an absolute indictment of secular/atheist regimes VS Christian regimes. Only the blind or the deluded would believe otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]


So the greatest country in the history of the world isn't favorable evidence for secular regimes? Or do you get to claim the US is in fact a Christian regime but somehow Hitler's Germany was not? I'd love to see how that argument goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usenet rule from 1986: All threads are over after Hitler has entered the debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he didn't enter the debate in my post, and you've talked about him before the post I made, so I'm not sure why you are running away and making excuses now. If you can't address my point thats fine but waiting to apply Godwin's Law until you've gotten all of the Hitler out of your system seems a little unfair. As a matter of fact, weren't you the FIRST one to bring up Hitler?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the first to attempt to exclude Hitler from the debate. I should have known better. My goal was not possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, why? I don't think you really get what Godwin's Law is all about? I think in discussions about Nazi Germany, its ok to talk about Hitler. In a discussion about genocidal despots, same.

Hopey 10-13-2007 11:36 PM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

* Hitler is unacceptable for this 'honor'. It's difficult to point to any substantial Christian philosophy guiding his action.

[/ QUOTE ]

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." - Adolf Hitler in a speech in 1933.

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/Z/P/hitler19.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

So if I understand your point, it's simply what I say and whom I stand next to, not what I do, upon which I'll be judged?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm sure the Catholic clergy who were glad-handing Adolf Hitler were doing it completely against their will, and not because they supported his government.

So I guess they were simply cowardly hypocrites, rather than accomplices. Glad we cleared that up.

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I'm certain you see how foolish your point is but I offer you a chance to pull this one out. Get out the New Testament and locate that passage or Gospel that would even tangentally suggest the extermination of all the Jews, Gypsies and ho.mosexuals and quote it here. Then you can put Hitler in the Christian column.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake. Obviously the Catholic church has always welcomed homosexuals and Jews with open arms.

ChrisV 10-14-2007 12:16 AM

Re: why does this forum care so much about religion
 
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Saying it doesn't make it so. To not choose is a choice. To eschew a Christian society is to choose the chaos that lies in the direction of a secular society.

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There are plenty of very secular countries in the world - I live in one - and they're doing just fine thanks. I don't think you're in any position to talk about the decline of society when the United States is in the process of abolishing fundamental civil liberties and is being enthusiastically cheered on by the strongly Christian section of the country.

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I'm trying to think of the most foul, doubtlessly Christian* world leader in the last century. Whoever gets the nod, he'll be small beer next to Stalin and Mao, or even Pol Pot.

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I'd go with Ceausescu, or Franco.

The point Sam Harris made in a speech the other day about the branding of "atheist" being no good is relevant to this argument. What luckyme and I want is the universal application of skepticism and reason, not atheism. There is no society or regime in history that has ever gone bad as a result of being too reasonable or too skeptical.


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