50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

Sb in this hand was 25/17 over 97 hands...

http://www.pokerhand.org/?786548

how was this played... fine/horribly?

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

reraise PF makes this so much easier

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

true... but does it get the most value?

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

Had you seen him 3bet before? How aggro is he postflop? Would he fire with AKo into a dry side pot? With normal aggression I´d call the flop and fold to a big turn bet. If villain doesn´t cb missed over on the flop you are not looking too good, 77-99 + KK/AA have you crushed, TT has ten outs and JJ six. The side pot is the key, unless you think he is maniac enough to keep fireing no matter what. Basically I think you hand over your stack to KK or AA with that flop raise.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

Reraise PF would give you a lot better idea of what the other players have so you don't put a ton of money in the pot when you're behind. Value means nothing if he wins the hand.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

gross flop...check it down.

Reraise preflop is probably better it looks like he's trying to isolate shorty with a medium pair or AJ which is why you should check the flop.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

hmm... everybody says raise pf but i thought that would be pretty bad at the time. perhaps i was wrong. Here's my reasoning;

he's obviously putting shorty AI... If i 4bet i will pretty much turn my cards up. he will fold every hand i beat and likely call with the ones that have me crushed kk & AA or could crush me on the flop; AK.I decided to see a flop and be done with the hand if an A or K came.

Now the flop is where my play is really suspect i think. It is really coordinated, I'm now beat by 77-99, flipping with TT and still losing to KK & AA.

I decided to reraise and fold to a push... this probably was a bad idea. but when he just call I decided my hand was probably good.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to reraise and fold to a push... this probably was a bad idea. but when he just call I decided my hand was probably good.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with calling pf. It is your above line that is flawed. You raise for information, which in itself is pretty horrible. It is fairly transparant so if I´m in villains shoes here with KK I just call and check to you on the turn. Yahtzee!

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I decided to reraise and fold to a push... this probably was a bad idea. but when he just call I decided my hand was probably good.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with calling pf. It is your above line that is flawed. You raise for information, which in itself is pretty horrible. It is fairly transparant so if I´m in villains shoes here with KK I just call and check to you on the turn. Yahtzee!

[/ QUOTE ]

this makes NO sense. KK is almost no better on this board as QQ. Especially if hero called. If I had KK and was Villain I'd fold to our miniraise.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

when you dont reraise PF you are letting him take control of the hand, you can no longer play your hand for value as an overpair.

You get folded out by a lot of hands you beat on many flops, reraising preflop makes the hand easier to play which is +EV.....or it takes the pot down there and gets you about as much as if you took it down with a donkbet/cbet on the flop in a raised pot, which is what happens most of the time. If he only calls you are pretty much good most of the time anyways as he will be playing a pure guessing game(like you are now).

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
when you dont reraise PF you are letting him take control of the hand, you can no longer play your hand for value as an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this... i don't think this is about control.
You are villian, you have a good hand and the donk short stack makes a huge raise, you reraise him AI. The tight(i was running 16.9/12) big stack calls behind... how do you feel about this?

If you have anything less than AA = Oh [censored]!
If you have AA = yes!... then you see the flop = Ohh [censored]!

[ QUOTE ]

reraising preflop makes the hand easier to play which is +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess... but only if i have villian beat... then i guarentee my self a small pot if he has me beat then what? Its +EV because now i know i'm beat and can fold?

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

between reraising him pf and calling pf, i think they are pretty much equally optimal.

the real problem with this hand is where u minraised him on the flop, that was a terrible mistake since you are allowing him to fold all hands that u beat and putting more money into the pot against hands that beat u.

now, if the reason u called pf was to slowplay your hand, then minraising here is the worst, your play should be a flat call or a shove.

however, if the reason u called pf was for set value (since in this case u would be putting him on aa or kk), then your play on the flop is to fold.

folding this flop is really weak, so imo best play is to flat call and see what he does on the turn, if he bets strong into u again, i think u can have a pretty good idea of where hes at, if he checks, u can probably assume your hand is best.

Re: 50NL: QQ in BB vs. raise and reraise
 

wouldn't pushing be doing the same thing though? i.e allowing him to fold all hands i beat and putting more money in the pot behind.

I didnt' want to push on flop and didnt want to fold. I honestly didnt see it as a minraise. I guess it was a raise for info... which as another poster pointed out was really bad. but i knew there was a problem with my post flop play and this response does the most to address that so far.