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- - JJ OOP, ACK (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=557029)

Villain is 16/12/7 over 200 hands, pretty TAGgy, he hasn't gotten out of line, and has shown down good hands (and hasn't played too many, either). As played, should I have folded this turn? His flop/turn aggro was like 6/oo. I thought him capable of double barreling given his aggro factor, but I think by the river i can fold easily w/o any concerns.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($340.60)
SB ($70.55)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($134)
MP ($98)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $18, Hero calls $18.

River: ($56.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $44, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $56.50

You've under repped your hand so i call in this spot

As played I think it's fine. He's not triple barreling that often with air so a fold is certainly ok. I'd probably rather 3bet preflop though as my standard play, but I will call every once in a while.

I would call the river. His agg is high (though I don't trust it much over 200 hands,) and we've shown a lot of weakness with 3 checks. He could be value betting a good T, also.

If villain was raising lighter, I wouldve definitely been more inclined to 3bet preflop. He's already pretty tight, I felt, without history, a 3bet would only narrow his range to mostly hands that beat me.

I think I'd bet/fold the turn. I'd hate to see a AKQ on the river.

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I think I'd bet/fold the turn. I'd hate to see a AKQ on the river.

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Doing that turns our hand into a bluff.. If he hits when he 2 barelled on the AKQ.. so be it. We're going to be somewhat unsure when he calls and if he raises, it sucks.

I'm calling river as well. Worse Tens are enough of his range that you can call.

That sounds a bit contradictory. If worse tens are in his range then we aren't turning our hand into a bluff because we get value from them? Or is this wrong?

By just calling down we get value towned by sets, QQ+. By betting we get raised by sets, QQ+ and can fold. If he calls then I like a b/f river unless you think he can bluff raise worse.

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That sounds a bit contradictory. If worse tens are in his range then we aren't turning our hand into a bluff because we get value from them? Or is this wrong?

By just calling down we get value towned by sets, QQ+. By betting we get raised by sets, QQ+ and can fold. If he calls then I like a b/f river unless you think he can bluff raise worse.

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By betting the turn, you might maximize your profit against his Ts yes - but poker is against a range of hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Why do you keep wanting to donk bet into him? Just let him keep betting and call down. I think by the river, he'll have worse tens enough to make the call.

Against a dude with this high of an AF, c/c 3 streets seems fine, c/r turn seems okay but it kinda turns our hand into a bluff and if he shoves we're in a spot where we're against the top of his range and we like hardly ever get him to flatcall us.

I definitely don't fold here if I c/c twice.

he seems aggro enough to bet 3 streets with AT, so i call

I am surprised that you'd fold the river. If you are to fold the river, raise the flop are turn and see where you stand. As played, calling the river sounds very standard.

I think this is marginal call but I will make it b/c of two reasons:

1) you have under repped your hand so he might be firing missed overs (at least in some cases)
2) he is aggro enough to be betting TP (not even TPTK).

Against a tight range: 33,99+,AT river call is neutral (need ~30, have ~30). Add some other TP hands (KT, QT), maybe ui AK sometimes, and it is a clear +ev.

I call.

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Why do you keep wanting to donk bet into him? Just let him keep betting and call down. I think by the river, he'll have worse tens enough to make the call.

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I guess because I'd check behind AK most turns looking to hit on the river, but bet when I had QQ+, AT. Given his AF I can see he's firing turn + river with more than me. As OP played I'd definitely call the river.

I'm rarely getting to showdown like this, but call as played.

In practice I'd probably call just cause I'm a station and I have an overpair! But when I sit back and think about it I'm not sure it isn't a fold. We have to be good here 30% of the time. I know our hand is underrepped, but it's pretty apparent we have something so I doubt he has air all that often. Maybe 10% of the time at most. What hands is a 16/12 value betting here that we beat... A10 and mayybe K10. His line is also consistent with QQ/KK/AA/sets/backdoor flushes. I'm just not sure we're good enough here. I doubt it makes a huge difference either way though and either calling/folding isn't a huge mistake. One thing that I feel is a big misconception is people thinking they have to call river just because they called turn and a pretty good river card hit. I think you're ahead of his range on the turn, but not so much on river, and I think the fact that the backdoor flush hit may play a small part in this.