Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

I made a post about this a week or so ago but I did not think it would be so literal so soon.

Protesters Torch Ianian Gas Stations

Of note are these comments:

"The Iranian government's last-minute decision to ration monthly fuel allotments, as well as increase the price of gas, triggered protests and riots -- a rarity in the Islamic republic, according to Iranian media reports.

The oil ministry issued a statement late Tuesday to announce the restrictions which went into effect on Wednesday.

Under the order, most Iranians will be limited to 21 gallons (100 liters) per month. The ministry also announced the price would be raised by more than 20 percent to $.11 per liter ($.44 a gallon).

That prompted hundreds of thousands of car owners to line up for miles at gas stations late Tuesday and early Wednesday. Others took to the street in protest, burning gas stations and looting other businesses, according to Fars News Agency.

The riots were so intense that fire engines could not reach the burning gas stations, Fars reported, adding that the security forces and the Basij militia were trying to get the situation under control until 2 a.m. Wednesday."

-Zeno

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance? Serious question because Andy wrote something the other day about U.S. policies towards Iran that had the effect of making their civilians suffer. Not sure if this lack of refining capacity in Iran has anything to do with U.S. imposed sanctions or some such. My impression was that it was Iranian government lack of foresight but not sure.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

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Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

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nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

sort of ironic--all this oil, and not a drop of gas anywhere. The last refineries in Iran afaik were built prior to the Shah's demise in 1979 and they lost a couple during their 8 year conflict with Iraq. Sanctions have prevented Iran from buiding new ones, but I am sure they haven't been really trying that hard either. If they could get nuclear technology in the country, refining technology would be a breeze--just not a high priority to the rulers.

I wish we could get gas for .11 a liter too. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is though that the people who suffer from sanctions aren't those that are in power and that the U.S. becomes a convenient target to direct hatred towards for imposing the hardships. Actually my understanding is that there's significant disatisfaction with the current extremist Islamic regime in Iran. Maybe sanctions are helping but don't know. Tend to think it's the repressive nature of the extremist Islamic regime rather than sanctions though.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
sort of ironic--all this oil, and not a drop of gas anywhere. The last refineries in Iran afaik were built prior to the Shah's demise in 1979 and they lost a couple during their 8 year conflict with Iraq. Sanctions have prevented Iran from buiding new ones, but I am sure they haven't been really trying that hard either. If they could get nuclear technology in the country, refining technology would be a breeze--just not a high priority to the rulers.


[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah you'd think that refineries would be feasible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[ QUOTE ]
I wish we could get gas for .11 a liter too. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

See what subsidies can do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is though that the people who suffer from sanctions aren't those that are in power and that the U.S. becomes a convenient target to direct hatred towards for imposing the hardships. Actually my understanding is that there's significant disatisfaction with the current extremist Islamic regime in Iran. Maybe sanctions are helping but don't know. Tend to think it's the repressive nature of the extremist Islamic regime rather than sanctions though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you look at Venezuala, which has had less trouble mobilizing oil wealth, Chavez had been really successful in using oil money to buy public favor and consolidate his dictatorship.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is though that the people who suffer from sanctions aren't those that are in power and that the U.S. becomes a convenient target to direct hatred towards for imposing the hardships. Actually my understanding is that there's significant disatisfaction with the current extremist Islamic regime in Iran. Maybe sanctions are helping but don't know. Tend to think it's the repressive nature of the extremist Islamic regime rather than sanctions though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but in this case all top US officials are saying 'all options are opened' and the is a huge military in the region just waiting for a green light. nothing can be worse than another big war there and sanctions are one of better choices in this case. besides IMO only domestic protests can effectively change a regime. also, i really doubt there is a true shortage of gas there. i'd say they don't have any less oil available at the moment than in the past. i'd say it's more about a regime trying to make a huge oil reserves and be prepared on a real long term embargo or in case of war.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is though that the people who suffer from sanctions aren't those that are in power and that the U.S. becomes a convenient target to direct hatred towards for imposing the hardships. Actually my understanding is that there's significant disatisfaction with the current extremist Islamic regime in Iran. Maybe sanctions are helping but don't know. Tend to think it's the repressive nature of the extremist Islamic regime rather than sanctions though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you look at Venezuala, which has had less trouble mobilizing oil wealth, Chavez had been really successful in using oil money to buy public favor and consolidate his dictatorship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unrest in Venezuela very recently though and after the protests against Chavez he comes out with his claim that the U.S. is planning to attack Venezuela. It struck me as an attempt to divert attention away from his policies that some Venezuelan citizen's were protesting against.

Re: Middle East in Flames: Part II
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the U.S. responsible for making the Iranian people suffer in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with that IMO. after all gas is something different than food shortage in north korea. until it's not something people would die from directly i would support an embargo. maybe those protests might provoke a change of regime in next elections.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is though that the people who suffer from sanctions aren't those that are in power and that the U.S. becomes a convenient target to direct hatred towards for imposing the hardships. Actually my understanding is that there's significant disatisfaction with the current extremist Islamic regime in Iran. Maybe sanctions are helping but don't know. Tend to think it's the repressive nature of the extremist Islamic regime rather than sanctions though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but in this case all top US officials are saying 'all options are opened' and the is a huge military in the region just waiting for a green light. nothing can be worse than another big war there and sanctions are one of better choices in this case. besides IMO only domestic protests can effectively change a regime. also, i really doubt there is a true shortage of gas there. i'd say they don't have any less oil available at the moment than in the past. i'd say it's more about a regime trying to make a huge oil reserves and be prepared on a real long term embargo or in case of war.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I think it would be preferable to not implement sanctions than implement them and alienate Iranian citizens.