Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

Ok, I'll shorten this as much as possible.

20/40 CAZ

On the river Hero bets with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board is

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villan calls, Hero tables his hand.

Villan who is sitting in seat 1 and has called down all the way from the flop flashes his cards to the players across the table. (away from the dealer) He then slams them into the muck. The player that he showed says "you just folded the best hand" Villan then takes them out of the muck at tables them. (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

The dealer stops everything and calls the floor. While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

What's the ruling?

I also have a second part to the question after I get a few answers.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

Villain gets the pot and Hero gets a free bj from Villain for conceding.

If Hero keeps his trap shut, then Hero wins the pot. Both the dealer and the kibitzer get punches in the nads... the dealer for not mixing in an obvious muck fast enough, the kibitzer for, well, kibitzing. One player to a hand. He never tabled, he mucked, end of story.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain gets the pot and Hero gets a free bj from Villain for conceding.

If Hero keeps his trap shut, then Hero wins the pot. Both the dealer and the kibitzer get punches in the nads... the dealer for not mixing in an obvious muck fast enough, the kibitzer for, well, kibitzing. One player to a hand. He never tabled, he mucked, end of story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point but Hero was just trying to be a nice guy to a person that made an honest mistake.

If the cards had not been seen by other players then things would have been different.

And yes I know one player to a hand rule but I don't see this as cheating, just pointing out the best hand.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

Villain gets the pot but is then 86ed for reaching into the muck.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]

He then slams them into the muck. ... Villan then takes them out of the muck


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With that description, dead hand.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

villian loses. he folded. you give up the pot when you fold.

cheers for doing the nice guy thing though. doesn't happen too often.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

The only way people learn to protect their hands is by losing a pot the way the villian should've lost this one. Dealer needs to turbo muck his hand and push you the pot. Why on earth would villian call this river bet and muck?? He should call and immediately turn his cards over and protect them. It was nice of you, I guess, but they won't learn until they lose.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]


I see your point but Hero was just trying to be a nice guy to a person that made an honest mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just noticed this, and it is bit confusing.
Is it Hero who told the guy he had thrown away the winner?
Or does
[ QUOTE ]
While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
mean Hero wanted to give the pot to Villain? If he wanted to let the other guy have the pot (in a cash game), give Villain the pot.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

Once you fold, even if your cards are not in the muck, another player doesn't get to read your hand for you and let you retrieve it. I've seen it ruled this way in real life at least twice by two different floors. In this case, the cards are seriously dead and gone cause the guy put 'em on the muck pile. So even if the AA guy had figured out on his own that he had the winner I wouldn't rule the pot was his.

On the other hand, hero is saying he doesn't want the pot. And I'm ok with giving AA the pot if hero says to do so. I've given up a pot when someone showed me his winners and then threw 'em face down into the muck without ever tabling 'em...but he knew what he had and keeping the pot in that sorta case would be dickish. In this case, AA apparently didn't know what he had, and I'm not in favor of rewarding folks who can't read the hands and don't table their cards. But if hero wants to do so, that's fine.

And yeah, players DO NOT reach into the muck. *SMACK*

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

Villain's hand is dead, villain gets 86'd for reaching into the muck, then kicked in the nuts by Hero and Security Guards for being a complete ass.