Leggo Poker avatars
 

It appears as if Lego Poker is getting into coaching on the site and all the listed coaches are sporting LP avatars. This is against the rules, no?

Here is the site BTW www.leggopoker.com

I have talked with some of hte guys (mainly tickner), and he says it is more than a coaching site and as of right now it is nothing, and since then it should be no problem. I kinda agree with him but I think it might violating the spirit of the rule.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

Hi Guys,

I'd like to chime in here and tell you mt thoughts on the matter.

As of right now, the site is simply a teaser page. As of right now, there is no way I can make any sort of money by people going to the site.

Secondly, while the Avatars do display our logo, they don't give off any sort of link, or even the name of the site (some have thought it was for Liquid Poker).

Third, once we launch, if the mods agree that it is not fair to put up avatars for it, I will order the team to take them down.

IMO this is pretty reasonable, but either way I will cooperate with the decision made.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

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Hi Guys,

I'd like to chime in here and tell you mt thoughts on the matter.

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hi. i don't mean to be combative, but.

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As of right now, the site is simply a teaser page. As of right now, there is no way I can make any sort of money by people going to the site.

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that's retarded. which either means you're retarded or you think we are. "hey guys, there's no way that huge piles of potential customers visiting my page before it has a way to pay me right now could make me money. no, really, no way they'd maybe be compelled to come back, you know, when ways to make money are up and running." so yes, while your above quoted is "true" it is not in the spirit of the truth.

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Secondly, while the Avatars do display our logo, they don't give off any sort of link, or even the name of the site (some have thought it was for Liquid Poker).

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i don't know what your logo is or really for that matter care enough to go track it down right now. i'm assuming since they confuse it with liquid poker, it has LP involved. just because your logo is so poorly designed that it's confusable with another large player in your market, doesn't mean that what people are doing isn't free advertising.

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Third, once we launch, if the mods agree that it is not fair to put up avatars for it, I will order the team to take them down.

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personally, as you can see, i think they should go right now, since broader policy has been against free advertising.

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IMO this is pretty reasonable, but either way I will cooperate with the decision made.

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the only thing that makes this have any subtlety to it is that as far as i know, you're in some sort of business relationship with 2p2 at the moment outside of the normal advertising scope, so perhaps prior precedent doesn't natter. but i doubt it.

also, you can perhaps see why it might (i use might because who knows, i could be wrong here) have been a better, less contemptible idea to ask first, instead of "if there's a problem i'll tell the team to take them down.

yours,

citanul

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I'm inclined to say that a logo is ok.

A website address is not, for sure, but a logo seems benign enough.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but these guys have done plenty for 2+2 by offering their hand converter. Allowing a logo seems like the decent thing for us to do. And as far as asking beforehand or not, it would be nice, but I don't have time to make an issue of that.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

if i remember correctly, evan had a logo, with possibly a web address in his avatar for awhile to his golf website.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

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if i remember correctly, evan had a logo, with possibly a web address in his avatar for awhile to his golf website.

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golf is not a competitor of 2+2 sponsors

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

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if i remember correctly, evan had a logo, with possibly a web address in his avatar for awhile to his golf website.

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More significantly, we allowed the DeucesCracked guys to keep their avatars. I guess they're now advertisers here w/ their own forums, but they had the logo avatars before then.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

In between the LP example and Evan's example (First Tee Direct, it's burned into my mind! Nice job, Evan) is poster stevea. I see it's been a couple of weeks since he last posted, but I read Home Poker fairly regularly and a very high percentage of his posts link to his (apparently for profit) site. Including pimping new chips that he got in and linking to them, etc.

There does seem to be some useful stuff on his site like tournament blind structures, etc., but the point of a vast majority of his posts is to drive traffic there. But since Home Poker seems virtually modless it has gone unchecked and perhaps unnoticed. And maybe it doesn't bother anyone but me either, and maybe it isn't a thread to 2+2 revenue, but I find it a bit much.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I agree, if I was the mod making the decision I would have removed stevea's avatar because it makes direct reference to the brand. DeucesCracked CardRunners and Leggo have their logos, but you must already know their brand to know what these people represent, I feel thats fair game - there is no a "call to action" (a marketing term) as we find in Stevea's avatar.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

i banned him. almost all his posts are designed to promote his site and they link there.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I used to read HP fairly frequently. I never really thought of it. Also too, if you want to add a new mod, Lottery Larry keeps that forum from being a total waste.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

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I used to read HP fairly frequently. I never really thought of it. Also too, if you want to add a new mod, Lottery Larry keeps that forum from being a total waste.

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AJ mods that forum, we PM from time to time because there are a lot of shared home poker and B&M concerns. I wasn't aware that he isn't around.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

There was a thread some time back in ATF, something like "No Home Poker Mod?", and AJFenix took the better part of two weeks to show up in it. I'm not dissing him, I mean GOD FORBID someone have a life away from 2+2, but the impression given was that it was a rudderless forum.

Also, agreed on Lottery Larry; he's probably far and away that forum's best contributor, which is why I hunted him down to give him that undertitle. If the idea is to have someone mod that forum that's around regularly (assuming AJ isn't actually around and just lurking, in which case sorry for the misunderstanding and me getting all up in your business), he'd be a great choice.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I agree with the Lottery Larry 4 mod. He's a good poster and the closest thing that forum has to a 'regular'.

also, in regards to the LP thing, i'm sortve indifferent. sortve 2p2's decision i would guess.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

Speaking of Leggo, I just noticed that MYNAMEIZGREG's custom title is "Leggo Co-Owner". Now that crosses the line IMHO both because it means a mod is helping a company advertise and the mod didn't take accountability for his or her actions in the user notes.
link

anyone care to take ownership of this oversight?

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I received a PM today:

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What are the rules regarding advertising sites in your avatar/title/location? MYNAMEIZGREG has leggopoker in all 3 and i thought that wasn't allowed? maybe i'm wrong. anyway let me know what the deal is, i have my own site and want to advertise in my loc/etc if that can happen. thx


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and I answered:
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Actually, there is discussion about that in the mods' forum, atm.

The standard rules are that you cannot advertise in your avatar, location, or a post, and you cannot refer readers to your Profile in your location or a post. (Obviously, titles are given by mods, and should not include an ad except in special circumstances, like if the guy is here because he answers for Pokerstars or something.)

Because the leggopoker avatar is "unknown" and doesn't direct people anywhere, plus as the guys aren't making money off the site yet, (so I think I read), plus as they host the HH thingy, it seems theirs is being allowed, so far. I think I read Mat as saying even they would be stopped if they had the www.leggopoker address in the avatar.

I haven't seen the location yet. If it's just leggopoker, that is probably ok, as it is suitably abstract. If it is leggopoker.com, then that is not ok, imo, and I will bring it up in the discussion that I don't think it's ok.

Hope this clarifies matters for you. Please write back if you are unclear, or if I have said anything you feel is incorrect.

Thanks.


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I hope this in order in the circumstances.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

Does that mean it'd be ok for me to list my location as "Cardrunners"? Can I put my avatar as a CR logo since the logo itself doesn't actually say Cardrunners or Cardrunners.com on it? CR pays for ads on 2p2 and has its own hand history converter that could be used on 2p2 if people wished, leggopoker is not even paying for any ads. I am just wondering where the line is.

IMO even if the site doesn't have actual content, it is still free advertising for them if they get to list their location as "leggopoker." I can figure out between the lines what it all means, and surely any monkey can too. Also, as was earlier pointed out, clearly it brings them future benefit pumping out their name now, before there is content.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

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Does that mean it'd be ok for me to list my location as "Cardrunners"? Can I put my avatar as a CR logo since the logo itself doesn't actually say Cardrunners or Cardrunners.com on it? CR pays for ads on 2p2 and has its own hand history converter that could be used on 2p2 if people wished, leggopoker is not even paying for any ads. I am just wondering where the line is.

IMO even if the site doesn't have actual content, it is still free advertising for them if they get to list their location as "leggopoker." I can figure out between the lines what it all means, and surely any monkey can too. Also, as was earlier pointed out, clearly it brings them future benefit pumping out their name now, before there is content.

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If it was up to me, I think I'd say "yes" to Cardrunners, and most other names without the www and the .com, in the Loc. (If we allow, and I think we should, "Blogging", or "Datamining", or any other "ing", in the Loc, then any monkey can figure out that they need to look in a poster's Profile to see the blog address. They could be met with www.cardrunners.com, or whatever is legitimately written in the Profile. In fact, they wouldn't even need to be a blogger. They could just have "Blogging" in their Loc to advertise indirectly whatever they wanted people to look at in their Profile.)

Again, if it was up to me, if the logo is not "in your face", I would allow it, generally speaking. (Someone could probably find a few logos that I might not wish to allow, but the leggopoker logo is not one.)

I really don't think I see this as a big deal, personally. I see posts all day long with actual website hot-addresses, or at least site.com-type addresses and I can live with most of them if there is value in the posts. Pure spammers quickly reveal themselves and are warned or banned by mods, or are called out by readers.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I'd be inclined to say that "Cardrunners" should not be allowed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's just a url you should put between a www. and a .com.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I know people like hard and fast rules, but the way i see it is that good posters and advertisers get to stay on the fence. Those who do not contribute so much do not.

I'm comfortable making this determination on an individual basis, at least for now. Now, if you think Leggo Poker logo members are not valued members here, i'd like to know. Because at that point, I'm willing to take a completely opposite approach and seek out reasons to ban them.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I recognize all leggopoker members and they are good strat posters imo.

For what I can say for sure is that cwar (LP member) is one of the best posters in the HU forum and extremely valuable.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

hra146 - I think Mat was being facetious about Leggo members on 2+2. Since they all seem to be good posters that contribute to the site "gray" marketing is ok. If however he is told that they are not good posters, or some other company such as stevea's logo is not a good poster, then alternative solutions such as a ban can be explored.

I still think the "Leggo Co-owner" title crosses the line, thats 2+2 mods helping him market his company and not ok in my eyes. If its not removed or noted by the mod who gave it to him by this evening I'll take it upon myself to remove the title. Its not MYNAMEIZGREG's fault as I see it since he cannot change his title on his own [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

lol ok, sorry.

I guess that was a language based misunderstanding.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

lol i stripped the custom title because it had no mod notes. roflcopter.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

There is one thing I'm not a fan of right now about Leggo...


Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

In the header of hand there are two links in there: one to the converter itself and one to the leggo homepage.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

aj,

That is not new, it's been like that for months.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

[ QUOTE ]
aj,

That is not new, it's been like that for months.

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That doesnt make it any more or less acceptable

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

What is wrong with it? Pretty much every converter I've seen has at least 2 links.

TBH I am just about done defending myself on here.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

[ QUOTE ]
TBH I am just about done defending myself on here.

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Bah, your being overly sensitive. Everything discussed in this thread was valid, nobody was coming down on you personally or even very hard on Leggo, this is a necessary part of operating the 2+2 site when there are volunteer moderators who influence the corporate decision making process. Don't take any of this personally, its constructive . This thread is for the good of 2+2 and good for your relationship with 2+2 as well. You should embrace this thread because it reinforces Leggo's value to the community. Your doing good! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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What is wrong with it? Pretty much every converter I've seen has at least 2 links.

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When other converters have two links usualy the consumer knows which link they are clicking on. ama0300 has a valid point, the way you place your links its a deceptive advertising practice (of course it might be unintentional, I I understand it could be a design aesthetic you like).

To clarify most competitors converters if they use two links (lots don't) look like this below, ama0330 is just pointing out that you should separate the two links:

"Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $100.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com"

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I have to agree w/ TT and ama. Putting the two links together like that is weird and is (possibly unintentional) deceptive advertising.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

Okay, sorry ama, I was having a frustrating day and got a little sour when I shouldn't have. Good point, I Was wrong.

This wasn't meant to be any sort of trick - it does look better like that, but you guys sold me on the fact that it can be deceiving at first glance.

I will separate them, but I feel I should ask about this new text first...

LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

WeakTight, FTR, and Deuces Cracked, Zion, etc all have the ".com" extension, and in order to avoid any arguments, I thought I would ask first. Is this allowed?

Thanks

EDIT: In fact, FTR have an affiliate link in their titles.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

fwiw Im not trying to be condescending or rip on your idea, or anything like that. Theres no question that the legoppoker converter is by far the best and most comprehensive on the net, and I know that youve put a huge amount of work into it, for free. I also know that youre a long time poster here (I remember your insane rush and consequent hammering [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) and that you have given a LOT to the forums over time.

The point I am a little unsure of is that you are uniquely positioned to take advantage of a huge customer base in 2p2, who all would be aware of and make use of your converter whenever they want to convert a hand. Now when they go to legopoker.com they see that you are offering coaching, which is also fine, but now you have that line drawn between not for profit and business.

Given that the large amount of traffic you attract was once for free, and now is for profit (or will be, eventually), you have to start thinking about how that affects 2p2 from a business perspective. Many advertisers pay good money to have the kind of referred traffic which you currently enjoy for free. The transition from converter to coaching site was of course unplanned and non-malicious from a commercial standpoint, but now that you are a commercial entity, things change a little.

Thats why when you take it to what I see as the "next level" - ie. putting that link in your source code and more specifically putting logos as avatars and custom titles etc you are starting to walk the line between "harmless self-promotion" and "utilitsing 2p2's user base for profit".

Those are my only concerns, and I know that your intentions are good. I just want to make sure that you play by the rules, because if you can advertise in the way you are but Joe Bloggs cant put a URL as his signature, then maybe thats not fair.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

ama0330: more whining, less poker

with love,

TT

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

tt,

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10413550 for reference.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

E-Dawg - for laughter.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

Umm, so is this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12904830 ok?

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, so is this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12904830 ok?

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Somebody asked a question days ago, Greg seen it and replied. I dont see why this is an issue? And you moved the thread?

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Umm, so is this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12904830 ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody asked a question days ago, Greg seen it and replied. I dont see why this is an issue? And you moved the thread?

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Someone hit notify mod on it, I only moved it here pending further guidance from the reds. If they're ok with it, Mike Haven please feel free to move it back.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

I just don't see any ground for moving it. I mean is it standard for mods to take action like this whenever the notify mod button is hit? Frankly it's not a big deal to me but I just feel whenever mods hear anything regarding LeggoPoker they take action where threads like "Should I buy a cardrunners.com account?" And "Who is the best 3bet coaches?" are no problem.

Re: Leggo Poker avatars
 

No, my SOP for a thread that has had "notify mod" hit on it, that I'm not sure what to do with, is to move it to the Mod forum pending further discussion/guidance from the reds. Thats all. I did not know what to do with this thread. I have no problem with it being moved back if the reds are ok with it. Also, up until about fifteen minutes ago, I didn't even know what lego poker was.