Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

A very good friend of mine plays at the Hollywood Hard Rock Casino in Florida every night. He told me that his friend just got back from playing in the Foxwood's Poker Classic $10,000 main event. On the first day, the following situation arose. It was nearing the dinner break. 4 players go all-in pre-flop and the action is to his friend. He looks down and finds pocket aces. He is covered by several of the all-ins. He thinks for awhile and then mucks his aces, pre-flop.

Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

If I needed the money and was sitting on the bubble with 3+ people all in in the hand is probably the only time I would fold AA, only if I was guaranteed to get paid by folding.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

No, why would I?

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

He was probably about 30% to win the hand and multiply his chip count by 5X (I don't have Pokerstove avaiable here, but I think 30% is about right). I'm sure he went all-in numerous times after this hand, and had to beat better than 30% odds to get to where he ended up. In other words, a terrible fold.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

Only great players fold aces preflop. I'm mediocre. All-in!

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

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Not I. Your friend's spectacular results have shown me the error of my ways. Thanks for posting!

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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He was probably about 30% to win the hand and multiply his chip count by 5X (I don't have Pokerstove avaiable here, but I think 30% is about right). I'm sure he went all-in numerous times after this hand, and had to beat better than 30% odds to get to where he ended up. In other words, a terrible fold.

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Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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Not even one great player would fold aces preflop.

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FYP.

And who cares if he would have lost the hand?

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

this is, far and away, the worst fold i've ever heard of. ever. i mean its worse than folding your SB to a BB thats sitting out. seriously.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

There are 2 situations where it is correct to fold aces prefop.

The first is when you are playing in a satellite where X number of seats are available and the approximate chances of you losing the hand exceed the chances of you folding here and being able to get the seat.

The second situation involves a tournament with a bubble where everyone who makes it to a certain placing gets to live and the others are put into a gas chamber to be killed.

In situations like these where survival past the bubble is at a premium, it can be correct in certain situations to fold aces preflop. In regular tournaments with a rising pay scale, you are going to have a very difficult time finding a better overlay then what you are presented with, whether 2, 4 or all 9 of your opponents push preflop. Take the +EV gamble. That is a horrible fold.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A very good friend of mine plays at the Hollywood Hard Rock Casino in Florida every night. He told me that his friend just got back from playing in the Foxwood's Poker Classic $10,000 main event. On the first day, the following situation arose. It was nearing the dinner break. 4 players go all-in pre-flop and the action is to his friend. He looks down and finds pocket aces. He is covered by several of the all-ins. He thinks for awhile and then mucks his aces, pre-flop.

Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

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he (your friend) or larry is lying about the hand. the situation probably did occur and he thought about what he would do with aces and decided it would be fun if he told everyone he had aces and laid it down (and he would have lost, of course!)

please never post about folding AA preflop again.

thanks.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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He was probably about 30% to win the hand and multiply his chip count by 5X (I don't have Pokerstove avaiable here, but I think 30% is about right). I'm sure he went all-in numerous times after this hand, and had to beat better than 30% odds to get to where he ended up. In other words, a terrible fold.

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I ran the pocket five simulator for AA's against 4 random hands and the AA's won around 55%. Figuring 4 all-ins means these were better than 4 random hands I would say your estimate would be fairly close. I don't think I could have layed them down though.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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The second situation involves a tournament with a bubble where everyone who makes it to a certain placing gets to live and the others are put into a gas chamber to be killed.

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I played one of these tournaments once. It was nerve-wracking, but I was able to abuse the [censored] out of the bubble.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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I ran the pocket five simulator for AA's against 4 random hands and the AA's won around 55%. Figuring 4 all-ins means these were better than 4 random hands I would say your estimate would be fairly close. I don't think I could have layed them down though.

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Reading your posts in this thread make me angry...I don't know if it's intentional or not, but everything you say makes it sound like he made a great fold. Of course you COULD fold the AA, you wouldn't because you're not a [censored] idiot.

Steve

P.S. I agree 100% with Soss that this hand did not happen as was stated in the OP.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
A very good friend of mine plays at the Hollywood Hard Rock Casino in Florida every night. He told me that his friend just got back from playing in the Foxwood's Poker Classic $10,000 main event. On the first day, the following situation arose. It was nearing the dinner break. 4 players go all-in pre-flop and the action is to his friend. He looks down and finds pocket aces. He is covered by several of the all-ins. He thinks for awhile and then mucks his aces, pre-flop.

Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

[/ QUOTE ]


he (your friend) or larry is lying about the hand. the situation probably did occur and he thought about what he would do with aces and decided it would be fun if he told everyone he had aces and laid it down (and he would have lost, of course!)

please never post about folding AA preflop again.

thanks.

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Sir,

I assure you this is the truth. That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed. Larry plays at the Hard Rock all the time. He is a standup guy - no need for stories. I am not sure how I can prove this except to give you my word. You can always come to Florida and verify it yourself. You can also see that Larry came in 4th by going to cardplayer.com.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

Your friend hates money. I'm glad he now has a lot of it.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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Sir,

I assure you this is the truth. That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed. Larry plays at the Hard Rock all the time. He is a standup guy - no need for stories. I am not sure how I can prove this except to give you my word. You can always come to Florida and verify it yourself. You can also see that Larry came in 4th by going to cardplayer.com.

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go again...please substitute the word horrified, shocked, disgusted, etc. for amazed or edit it to read "amazed at his horrible fold", "amazed that someone I thought was good at poker could make such a bad fold", "amazed that anyone who's actually a living, breathing person would be bad enough to make this fold", etc.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

steve keeps getting cooler and cooler. keep it up and i'll be forced to buy you a drink in vegas come wsop time

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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I ran the pocket five simulator for AA's against 4 random hands and the AA's won around 55%. Figuring 4 all-ins means these were better than 4 random hands I would say your estimate would be fairly close. I don't think I could have layed them down though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading your posts in this thread make me angry...I don't know if it's intentional or not, but everything you say makes it sound like he made a great fold. Of course you COULD fold the AA, you wouldn't because you're not a [censored] idiot.

Steve

P.S. I agree 100% with Soss that this hand did not happen as was stated in the OP.

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Steve,

Where do I say it was a great fold - I would not have done it. I was just relaying the facts of the hand. What if he would have won and then made 5x his money? I just thought it interesting how one hand like this changed his tournament. Most of us would have been out. He knew the hands were all going to go to a showdown and figured he was going to lose. Worked out for him in this case.

By the way, he always leaves his wife 10% of whatever he wins at the Hard Rock. This time she got around $30,000.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

my head hurts

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

I have a friend who made the same argument not too long ago. He is pretty good at poker, but is too weak-tight at this point to ever seriously cash. I can understand the reasoning to a certain extent, but I agree that it's ultimately very dumb play.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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Sir,

I assure you this is the truth. That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed. Larry plays at the Hard Rock all the time. He is a standup guy - no need for stories. I am not sure how I can prove this except to give you my word. You can always come to Florida and verify it yourself. You can also see that Larry came in 4th by going to cardplayer.com.

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go again...please substitute the word horrified, shocked, disgusted, etc. for amazed or edit it to read "amazed at his horrible fold", "amazed that someone I thought was good at poker could make such a bad fold", "amazed that anyone who's actually a living, breathing person would be bad enough to make this fold", etc.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

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Stand corrected - amazed at the horrible laydown [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

The only way folding AA PF is correct here is if the guy is not playing poker for the money. That is to say, he values the entertainment of playing in a $10K Main Event more than the money that can be made by winning it. It's probably not a problem since I happen to think it is ludicrous to be playing poker for any of these reasons, but no one on these forums ever really considers any of these factors.[/devil's advocate]

That said, your friend should be shot.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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I ran the pocket five simulator for AA's against 4 random hands and the AA's won around 55%. Figuring 4 all-ins means these were better than 4 random hands I would say your estimate would be fairly close. I don't think I could have layed them down though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading your posts in this thread make me angry...I don't know if it's intentional or not, but everything you say makes it sound like he made a great fold. Of course you COULD fold the AA, you wouldn't because you're not a [censored] idiot.

Steve

P.S. I agree 100% with Soss that this hand did not happen as was stated in the OP.

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Steve,

Where do I say it was a great fold - I would not have done it. I was just relaying the facts of the hand. What if he would have won and then made 5x his money? I just thought it interesting how one hand like this changed his tournament. Most of us would have been out. He knew the hands were all going to go to a showdown and figured he was going to lose. Worked out for him in this case.

By the way, he always leaves his wife 10% of whatever he wins at the Hard Rock. This time she got around $30,000.

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I too fold aces pre-flop when i figure i'd lose. I also never travel through england; there be dragons, Lucky Charms is run by an evil Leperchaun running sweat shops out of the ghetto, Trix aren't just for kids, and the Colonel puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartass!

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He thinks for awhile and then mucks his aces, pre-flop.

Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

[/ QUOTE ]
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I don't think I could have layed them down though.

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That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed.

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Most of us would have been out. He knew the hands were all going to go to a showdown and figured he was going to lose. Worked out for him in this case.

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Steve is right, you keep suggesting that this was a justifiable fold (or you don't quite grasp the English language). Even the creation of this thread implies that there is a debate to be had here when there really isn't.
If worth posting at all, this story should probably be in NVG or the WPT forum under the title "look what kind of players can make 10k FTs!".

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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By the way, he always leaves his wife 10% of whatever he wins at the Hard Rock. This time she got around $30,000.

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Is this some sort of prenuptial agreement? lol.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

there's not nearly enough sarcasm in this thread

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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By the way, he always leaves his wife 10% of whatever he wins at the Hard Rock. This time she got around $30,000.

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Is this some sort of prenuptial agreement? lol.

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I believe the correct legal term is "whipped."

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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He thinks for awhile and then mucks his aces, pre-flop.

Turns out he would have lost the hand. His name is Larry Klur. He ended up finishing 4th and winning $292,264. How many of you would have done that?

[/ QUOTE ]
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I don't think I could have layed them down though.

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That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed.

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Most of us would have been out. He knew the hands were all going to go to a showdown and figured he was going to lose. Worked out for him in this case.

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Steve is right, you keep suggesting that this was a justifiable fold (or you don't quite grasp the English language). Even the creation of this thread implies that there is a debate to be had here when there really isn't.
If worth posting at all, this story should probably be in NVG or the WPT forum under the title "look what kind of players can make WPT FTs!".

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I did post it in WPT (but not with that heading). It got moved here by the Mod. I apologize if it appears that I am justifying his fold - that was not my intention. I thought it was just an interesting story - sorry if some of you disagree.

By-the-way, Larry was not known as a 'good' player when he started. He has been losing pretty bad there for about a year but constantly trying to improve his play. He is always asking my friend and some of the other 'pros' there for advice on his play. Don't think anyone of them would have told him to fold.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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I did post it in WPT (but not with that heading). It got moved here by the Mod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my bad, then my gripe is not with you.
Rather,

<------

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

shocker...

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

This thread needs funny images/ more sarcasm, or it needs to be locked. Someone do somethig quick.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

shut up, kanook.

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

LOCKED

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

MOCKED

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

CROCKED

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

I assure you this is the truth. That is why I posted it because when my friend (Kenny) told me the story I was amazed. Larry plays at the Hard Rock all the time. He is a standup guy - no need for stories. I am not sure how I can prove this except to give you my word. You can always come to Florida and verify it yourself. You can also see that Larry came in 4th by going to cardplayer.com.

you can assure nothing of the sort. The only thing you CAN assure is this is the story as some third party (kenny) told it to you.

And unless someone who was at the table steps forward and says they saw the AA fold with their own eyes, this is all based on hearsay.

-Scott

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

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There are 3 situations where it is correct to fold aces prefop............

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FYP

You forgot: It's the 31st of May. It's late. You're deep in the last tournament that counts toward the May TLB on 'Stars. You have some cheating software (bought on E-bay for $49.99) so you know all other 11 team's current TLB-points. You're at the FT of a $3.3 MTT with seven people left (none of which are 2+2). You have 65% of the chips in play. You need 6th place to guarantee your Team victory in the MTT Teams Challenge.

YOU FOLD EVATHING!!!!

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

still hearsay =]

Re: Would you have folded pocket aces pre-flop?
 

Was it a really extreme bubble situation?