Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

A kid I know (lets call him John) just approached me about a "e-commerce opportunity with residual income" called Quixtar, which is basically Amway on the internet. For those who don't know what Amway is, check google or Wiki.

John is a nice guy, and I think he got suckered into this very recently. I think he feels it is a legit opportunity, but he has already lied to my face on some aspects of it, or at least grossly misrepresented them. I've feigned ignorance so far and even met his sponsor and went to a information/recruitment meeting, mostly because I wanted to see if allegations about this thing being a brainwashing cult is true.

So far, all the nasty things I've read about seem to be true. I've never seen anything that preyed on people's sense of pettiness and greed like this organization. Including many people spouting straightout lies and false stats to my face.

John and his sponsor are looking to "close the deal" with me. Should I:
1) Politely say I'm not interested and leave them alone?
2) Confront them about about the fact that they are selling a scam?
3) Contact John and try to get him out of the organization?
4) Goto the next meeting, declare everyone there to be gullible idiots, and then run?

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

just be glad you're not an idiot. it wouldnt be worth my time to do anything other than brush them off, unless i could make somethin absolutely hilarious out of it.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

Either 1 or 3. You won't benefit much from #2 or #4.

If just is more of a friend than "a kid you know," then lean toward #3. Else, #1 is the winner.

This should be a poll. I can either make one for you, tell you to do it yourself, or leave and say nothing. Since making it for you won't benefit me in any way and you probably wouldn't make it a poll if I asked you, then I will just say nothing and leave.

See? Learn by example. =)

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

if he's just a kid you know and not an actual friend you should do whatever would bring you the most personal amusement for the least amount of effort.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I'm trying to think of stuff that would up the hilarity factor, but the dudes who are into this are friggin hardcore. I could get bum rushed. The weird thing is that the meeting I went to was 95% Indian, and I think it might be funny to experience getting cursed off simultaneously by 50+ people with horrible Indian accents.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

"you want us to sell amway??"

"its confederated products, its a different company ... a different quality of product"

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

http://www.skippypodar.net/WebGaller...trainwreck.jpg

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Amway/...ers/Nixon2.jpg

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to think of stuff that would up the hilarity factor, but the dudes who are into this are friggin hardcore. I could get bum rushed. The weird thing is that the meeting I went to was 95% Indian, and I think it might be funny to experience getting cursed off simultaneously by 50+ people with horrible Indian accents.

[/ QUOTE ]
Tell the Indians that this is just a subsidiary of a larger company comprised of cattle farmers.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I highly, highly, highly suggest #1. Tell him you hope it works out, but you never want to hear about it - ever. My college roommate/closest friend got into this our senior year despite my suggestions to the contrary, and it just totally took over his life. It came up in every conversation we had, I got tired of hearing about it, and that was that. We haven't really talked to each other much since.

The trip report is not worth going to one of the meetings, despite the obvious entertainment value.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

These people are worse than born again christians. Just stay far far away. SOrry you lost a good friend.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I went to a sales pitch cause my friend insisted it was the real deal. I made that guy feel like a idiot, questioning him and making him uncomfortable. I told my friend if he did this it would be a terrible idea, and alas, he believed me, and just 2 weeks ago he told me about his friend who got him into it...pours in way more than he can makes.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

If he is at all your friend, just try to have a talk with him or at least send him 1-2 websites denouncing the whole thing.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

Believe it or not this isn't a scam. It's just a very, very hard way to make an easy living.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I had a co-worker at my internship get into this, he spends a TON of time and effort into it on the side. He has been in it for a long time and SEEMS to be doing alright with it, but I don't know the reality of it.

I went to a meeting when he told me about it, but I just don't think that everything adds up. AFter the meeting I just politely told him that I appreciated the offer, but was not interested in it.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
These people are worse than born again christians. Just stay far far away. SOrry you lost a good friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

The organization puts a very heavy emphasis on Christianity so you get the best of both worlds.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not this isn't a scam. It's just a very, very hard way to make an easy living.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, I did some network marketing in college, if you are actually willing to put in the time(lots of it), you can make yourself some good money. I do have a couple acquaintances who are doing well with Lightyear Alliance.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

The side business of selling motivational materials (tapes, CD's, books etc.) to new recruits is more lucrative than the business itself.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

Ask to see the sponsor's tax return.

Seriously, it's like kryptonite and cuts right through all the BS.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not this isn't a scam. It's just a very, very hard way to make an easy living.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, I did some network marketing in college, if you are actually willing to put in the time(lots of it), you can make yourself some good money. I do have a couple acquaintances who are doing well with Lightyear Alliance.

[/ QUOTE ] It seems to be pretty much a full-fledged scam. I just read on Wikipedia that in addition to the fact that:

[ QUOTE ]
The side business of selling motivational materials (tapes, CD's, books etc.) to new recruits is more lucrative than the business itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

that the products that do sell are mostly to those within the organization. These products that the "business" purports to sell are largely just a cover for an otherwise clear pyramid scheme. Yes there are legitamte sales, but that's not how the system thrives, thus it is a veiled scam, it was ruled in supreme court that it was a legal corporation due to this cover, the way I understand it.

Makes me think of how DVD writers can be sold legally, because while they COULD be used illegally, they have a legal use too so they can be sold, even though a major use is pirating.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not this isn't a scam. It's just a very, very hard way to make an easy living.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, I did some network marketing in college, if you are actually willing to put in the time(lots of it), you can make yourself some good money. I do have a couple acquaintances who are doing well with Lightyear Alliance.

[/ QUOTE ] It seems to be pretty much a full-fledged scam. I just read on Wikipedia that in addition to the fact that:



[/ QUOTE ]

well, I more meant network marketing in general, I know nothing about this specifc company.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I more meant network marketing in general

[/ QUOTE ]

The company's focus has to be on selling product.

The trouble with most of these network mktg outfits is that they focus on and make money from recruiting.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I more meant network marketing in general

[/ QUOTE ]

The company's focus has to be on selling product.

The trouble with most of these network mktg outfits is that they focus on and make money from recruiting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say 'most'.

Just like any industry, there are good companies, and not so good ones.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

When the Internet was pretty new, at least to me, and I had AOL and I was a new lawyer trying to build a practice.. I put in my profile that I was a lawyer and some Amway dude tracked me down, only he didn't call it that. He said he was looking for a lawyer but I couldn't get him pinned down on what it was that a lawyer was supposed to do for him or what the business was. So I went to meet with him and he described this pyramid scheme. Wasted an hour except that it gave me awesome Amway Radar.

A year or two after that I was in line at Wendy's. Random guy in the line strikes up a conversation with me. I don't remember what he said but I instantly knew it was Amway. I said "Amway?, not interested." Boy was he shocked. He asked why no interest and I said b/c I'd been lied to before.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

the historical reasoning behind not telling you what the "opportunity" is results from the newbies not knowing how to properly present the opportunity. in actuality, it is because when people heard the word amway, they either were already in it, fled immediately, or had never heard of it.

however, if you don't know how the mlm's work, you can actually learn some valuable marketing principles, but most is just talk to your friends and send them to a meeting so the upline can recruit them.

amway is better than some because there used to be some decent quality products that were concentrated and really did go a long way.

more recently, i looked at the smorgasbord that they do with quixtar and they have totally missed the mark for any product focus.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I was involved in MLM through the Primerica insurance company.... while not a scam, they are recruit intensive. They also used to charge the maximum legal front end load on mutual funds.

That said, I learned enough about insurance while getting my license that I call the experience a plus.

I just wasn't cut to sell life insurance, or recruit others to do it.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

fwiw quixtar is only $40 i believe to join their big thing is to buy the products for yourself and use them and then get others to be under you and buy and use the products etc. I think #4 is the best choice if you get the nice pause after you say it look both ways and jsut dart out of there. priceless.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was involved in MLM through the Primerica insurance company.... while not a scam, they are recruit intensive. They also used to charge the maximum legal front end load on mutual funds.

That said, I learned enough about insurance while getting my license that I call the experience a plus.

I just wasn't cut to sell life insurance, or recruit others to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of my very best friends is a primerica rep. Myself, our other best mutual friend, and my dad all think Primerica is bad, but he has been brain-washed by the company. I remember Primerica calling me the summer after I graduated from biz school at IU, I can't believe IU even lets them recruit there. I can't believe how much he is getting when he gets someone life insurance or sets them up with mutal funds or whatever, he is getting ripped.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

primerica was another great idea going mainstream and losing focus. people realized the money came from recruiting and not selling.

buy term and invest the difference is a fine idea. the insurance industry is still making large fortunes from people who buy whole life insurance. the insurance lobby is one of the most impressive behemoths of all time.

however, you are right about the high fees too.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw quixtar is only $40 i believe to join their big thing is to buy the products for yourself and use them and then get others to be under you and buy and use the products etc. I think #4 is the best choice if you get the nice pause after you say it look both ways and jsut dart out of there. priceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy told me that registration was $200 and BWW "training materials" is another $95. He didn't even say they were optional.

I did some research and while Quixtar is not a scam in the legal sense, thier prices on core products are high enough that nobody would ever choose to buy them over traditional products from a store. The only way to ensure constant product turnover is to develope a system which forces your members to buy a requisite amount of overpriced products in order to support thier "business". In order for you to turn a profit, many people under you have to be paying out the nose. Then of course there is the constant pressure to buy training materials and attend sessions.

People must fall for this crap hook line and sinker, because John's sponsor, an "emerald", couldn't believe how long it was taking to "sell me the business." He told me the points/reward structure and basically said, "how would you like to pay?" When I replied that I actually wanted to see the site for myself to make sure Quixtar's prices are competitive, I got this gem: "Imagine you are choosing between buying k-mart and wal-mart. There is no way you would goto every store and compare the prices of every item. The individual prices here don't matter because YOU ARE BUYING THE BUSINESS AND NOT THE ITEMS." This guy was supposedly a successful businessman with an MBA.

I can't believe this guy doesn't get laughed at if he is going to spout lines like that under pressure.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

5) Join up.

Dude, that stuff practically sells itself. When opportunity knocks, you better answer.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I have known lots of people who have gotten involved in multi-level marketing companies. I have never been convinced to join them because it is pretty obvious that you can't make any money. I've always tried to convince them that they are making a mistake, but they won't listen. These are smart people too.

I don't think they are scams in the traditional sense. It is just a business model that works great for the parent corporation and is a waste of time for those who join these programs. The people who get scammed are those that sign-on to be sales people or marketers. The products themselves are not a scam.

Regarding this kid, I think all hope is lost. You can try to talk him out of it, but it looks like he is brainwashed already. Sometimes you have have to let people fail. Once he fails he will realize what a dumb idea the whole thing was.

For those that mentioned Primerica, I think they call everybody. I think the only qualification for working for them is that you have a pulse. They are a division of Citigroup, which gives them some credibility in some people's minds. When someone calls you up and says they have a great job opportunity for you, but they can't tell you what it is, so you will have to come to a seminar to find out about it, you know it is a load crap. If it were such a great money making opportunity they wouldn't need to cold-call people and get them to come to a seminar in order to recruit salespeople.

quixtar trip report
 

I have a friend who is involved in this company and tried to get my to sign up with them around Thanksgiving last year. He called me every Thursday for like a month straight trying to get me to go to Tulsa for a Quixtar meeting. For some reason I couldn't go every week. Then one day he called me and said that he was going to have a meeting at his mom's house and I should come. I felt bad for not ever going to the meetings so I went to this one.

I went there with absolutely no intention of buying anything and my friend and three other people were all there were wearing suits (I'd never seen my friend in a suit) and when I walked in they had a tripod thing set up with all these huge cards on it showing me everything about the company. It was so [censored] awkward because I was the only one there. There was no one else there. Just me and those three.

After it was over they asked me if I was interested in buying a part of their company or whatever and I said no and left. It was so awkward. I kind of felt bad because they all drove down from Tulsa (about 30 minutes) just to do this hour long presentation to me when I had zero intentions of doing any business with them.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

It seems like where I live, the popular MLM company is ACN. I'll get randomly approached by a rep probably about 2-3 times every year. They sell some digital phone service I believe.

It happens the same way every time. If you're looking at something in a store, they'll come over and randomly start talking about that. Or if you're wearing something on your shirt that lends itself to conversation (like your school Alma Mater or a sports team), they'll come over, mention something about that, and then introduce themselves. You always know it's them before they even start on their speech, because no one else comes up and makes the same random conversation in the manner that they do. There just seems something so scripted and awkward about the conversation as it's happening (because it is). And then after a minute or two of some inane small talk, they start in on their sales pitch.

"...I help people find their financial freedom..." I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

I just want to point out that MLMarketing morphed into Affiliate Marketing... which led to Rakeback!

Be thankful for Amway and other MLM's that paved the way...

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

Just make a smooth, non-confrontational exit from the situation. You don't want to give them anything to get their hooks into so they can keep you talking and arguing, because guys like this can really wear on your nerves, and often just give you hostile send-off once it's clear they failed. There's really no good that can come of prolonging it. Just do a calm "no means no" if they persist, and leave it at that.

Re: Wtf? I just got approached by Amway!?
 

Amway Link

Here's a link to give your friend. It's very critical (sour grapes?) but there are links to other mainstream articles in there. There is a lot of information.

I was in Amway in the mid 80's. It is definitely not for everyone. There is very little left of the people that were above me and they were "successful" at the time. Luckily, my wife and I were poor and couldn't afford to shove a bunch of money into it so we didn't lose much when we stopped.