Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

I often see Caarlfan, Lagerborg sitting at those 100/200 and 300/600 tables. Moreover they say that thesalmon owns everyone at these games.

Well, IF they are so good is it not almost like a law of nature that THEY HAVE TO POST at 2 plus 2 forums. I cannot think that they got up so high without reading 2 plus 2.

Take thesalmon. Are there any post from this guy on 2 plus 2? I guess no. How can he be that good then? I heard he earns like millions.

I mean is there another "level" of play once you know everything about the mathematical aspect. Do those guys have some extraordinary sense about their opponents, like losing minimal with their KK against AA but winning max if opponents hold QQ.

Comments please.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

This forum is not the be-all and end-all of poker knowledge. And you don't have to post in order to read, the number of lurkers far outnumbers posters.

Also, how do you know they haven't posted here? That's the point of anonymous message boards...

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I often see Caarlfan, Lagerborg sitting at those 100/200 and 300/600 tables. Moreover they say that thesalmon owns everyone at these games.

Well, IF they are so good is it not almost like a law of nature that THEY HAVE TO POST at 2 plus 2 forums. I cannot think that they got up so high without reading 2 plus 2.

Take thesalmon. Are there any post from this guy on 2 plus 2? I guess no. How can he be that good then? I heard he earns like millions.

I mean is there another "level" of play once you know everything about the mathematical aspect. Do those guys have some extraordinary sense about their opponents, like losing minimal with their KK against AA but winning max if opponents hold QQ.

Comments please.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's always another level of play.

No, there is no law of nature.

Are you trying to say that since there are so many haughty posters around here that you have to post on 2+2 to be a good high stakes player? Seems that's what you're inferring. If so, lol.


I think that you should do what I did when I joined and my posts weren't garnering much interests; go read the archives.



Tex

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

you tell him, Eugene.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think that you should do what I did when I joined and my posts weren't garnering much interests; go read the archives.


[/ QUOTE ]

DING DING DING.

archives are where its at. its very tedius but if you go to the bottom of the page of older archives, you'll see many great analyses by the big 3 themselves as well as other fantasticly intelligent people like Abdul Jalib, louis landale, and many others whose names are not at the top of my head right now.

as to the OP's questions, 2p2 is a mere microcosm of poker studies.

a few of the now more prominent ones are UoAlberta in canada ran by Dr. Brian Alspach, "project mayham" (lol) which is just a collection of top pros like ms and mr fekali, andre prock et. al who reside in ljubljana (the wording there is funny, andrew does not live there)

further, 2p2 works on the groundwork up. it developes analytical skills to help you beat most opponents. thus its limited by nature as to how you look at the game. this took a long time to see b/c you get accostomed to what you are surrounded by. the best players dont worry so much about #s as they do about what any given player has at a particular moment and what that means for their current and future actions (live moreso than online although SH #s i also think mean less).

the other groups who study poker also dont make themselves as public as 2p2 (pasted on the back of every 2p2 book, and referred to by people such as brian alspach above).

also, the other groups look at the game differently and are capable of "outside the box" thinking as they were never "in the box" to begin with.

anyways, theres alot more to say on this issue. to be brief:

-2p2 is a microcosm
-other strategies can beat the game by the same or larger margin than us at 2p2
-its good to never have a closed mind.

one more thought, just because you read and post on 2p2 doesn't mean you play winning poker.

Barron

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
this may be the dumbest post ever. 2+2 won't make u a great player. In fact I got up to beating every limit online without ever reading a book other than for curiosity. I am sure they have done the same.

BTW, the GCC and I owned lager for 300k this month [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this the dumbest post ever? I am new to poker, but I guess you started directly at the top and never asked a seemingly silly question. For me, 2 plus 2 is THE POKER authority and is it not right to question how high rollers think about this?

Ok, to the other part of your reply. You imply that the poker books did not had significant impact on your win rate. How were you able to beat the games then I ask? Did you come up with implied odds yourself, did you develop skill recognizing betting patterns, did you play very many hands per day?

What I want to say, there must be a source of your talent at poker (let's call it like that) other than books. What would you say had the largest impact on your winrate.

Did you read Small Stakes Hold 'Em by Ed Miller (I know, you're highroller but anyways)

At what site do you play against Lagerborg?

Thank you.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]

DING DING DING.

archives are where its at. its very tedius but if you go to the bottom of the page of older archives, you'll see many great analyses by the big 3 themselves as well as other fantasticly intelligent people like Abdul Jalib, louis landale, and many others whose names are not at the top of my head right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are sooooooo many posts in the archive, that I just don't know which one to pop up. And to whom do you refer by the big 3 themselves?

[ QUOTE ]


as to the OP's questions, 2p2 is a mere microcosm of poker studies.

a few of the now more prominent ones are UoAlberta in canada ran by Dr. Brian Alspach, "project mayham" (lol) which is just a collection of top pros like ms and mr fekali, andre prock et. al who reside in ljubljana (the wording there is funny, andrew does not live there)


[/ QUOTE ]
I am going to search more info bout that.

[ QUOTE ]


further, 2p2 works on the groundwork up. it developes analytical skills to help you beat most opponents. thus its limited by nature as to how you look at the game. this took a long time to see b/c you get accostomed to what you are surrounded by. the best players dont worry so much about #s as they do about what any given player has at a particular moment and what that means for their current and future actions (live moreso than online although SH #s i also think mean less).


[/ QUOTE ]
So if they dont worry about the numbers, do they like draw to a gutshot draw even when impied odds do not justify it?

What is SH?

So you say the real good one players focus more on reads and predictions about what the other player hole cards are?

[ QUOTE ]


the other groups who study poker also dont make themselves as public as 2p2 (pasted on the back of every 2p2 book, and referred to by people such as brian alspach above).

also, the other groups look at the game differently and are capable of "outside the box" thinking as they were never "in the box" to begin with.


[/ QUOTE ]

This part made me extremely curious. Damn I want to read about what this outside thinking means.

[ QUOTE ]


anyways, theres alot more to say on this issue. to be brief:

-2p2 is a microcosm
-other strategies can beat the game by the same or larger margin than us at 2p2
-its good to never have a closed mind.


[/ QUOTE ]

what other strategies? I know it sounds silly but damn I want to know them.

[ QUOTE ]


one more thought, just because you read and post on 2p2 doesn't mean you play winning poker.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I am/was of opinion, playing pro poker = you must post on p2p.

Thanks, I hope you reply.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

DING DING DING.

archives are where its at. its very tedius but if you go to the bottom of the page of older archives, you'll see many great analyses by the big 3 themselves as well as other fantasticly intelligent people like Abdul Jalib, louis landale, and many others whose names are not at the top of my head right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are sooooooo many posts in the archive, that I just don't know which one to pop up. And to whom do you refer by the big 3 themselves?

[/ QUOTE ]

david mason and ray.
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]


as to the OP's questions, 2p2 is a mere microcosm of poker studies.

a few of the now more prominent ones are UoAlberta in canada ran by Dr. Brian Alspach, "project mayham" (lol) which is just a collection of top pros like ms and mr fekali, andre prock et. al who reside in ljubljana (the wording there is funny, andrew does not live there)


[/ QUOTE ]
I am going to search more info bout that.

[ QUOTE ]


further, 2p2 works on the groundwork up. it developes analytical skills to help you beat most opponents. thus its limited by nature as to how you look at the game. this took a long time to see b/c you get accostomed to what you are surrounded by. the best players dont worry so much about #s as they do about what any given player has at a particular moment and what that means for their current and future actions (live moreso than online although SH #s i also think mean less).


[/ QUOTE ]
So if they dont worry about the numbers, do they like draw to a gutshot draw even when impied odds do not justify it?

What is SH?


[/ QUOTE ]

short handed. and the #s i am referring to is how most pros look at opponents: via pokertracker and playerview etc.

these programs track opponents actions and give averages of all the distributions of their actions for, lets say preflop. but these #s are sometimes wrong in that they give the wrong impression about the opponent. this is exacerbated SH.

[ QUOTE ]

So you say the real good one players focus more on reads and predictions about what the other player hole cards are?

[ QUOTE ]


the other groups who study poker also dont make themselves as public as 2p2 (pasted on the back of every 2p2 book, and referred to by people such as brian alspach above).

also, the other groups look at the game differently and are capable of "outside the box" thinking as they were never "in the box" to begin with.


[/ QUOTE ]

This part made me extremely curious. Damn I want to read about what this outside thinking means.

[ QUOTE ]


anyways, theres alot more to say on this issue. to be brief:

-2p2 is a microcosm
-other strategies can beat the game by the same or larger margin than us at 2p2
-its good to never have a closed mind.


[/ QUOTE ]

what other strategies? I know it sounds silly but damn I want to know them.

[/ QUOTE ]

strategies like raising with gutshots on the turn and capping when 3 bet to gain fold equity on the river. things we'd never think about doing most of the time.

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]


one more thought, just because you read and post on 2p2 doesn't mean you play winning poker.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I am/was of opinion, playing pro poker = you must post on p2p.

Thanks, I hope you reply.

[/ QUOTE ]

that assumption is based on your observation and implicitly assumes you know everything about being a pro. not good to assume strong things like that in poker.

hope this helps

Barron

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take thesalmon. Are there any post from this guy on 2 plus 2? I guess no.

[/ QUOTE ]

thesalmon=Erik Sagstrom? Erik used to post here awhile ago.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take thesalmon. Are there any post from this guy on 2 plus 2? I guess no.

[/ QUOTE ]

thesalmon=Erik Sagstrom? Erik used to post here awhile ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes thats him. Do you know under what nickname he posted?

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

pn,

All three post here.

Caarlfan = 2+2 NLfool
Lagerborg = 2+2 kurosh
thesalmon = 2+2 raptor517

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pn,

All three post here.

Caarlfan = 2+2 NLfool
Lagerborg = 2+2 kurosh
thesalmon = 2+2 raptor517

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, this is one of your recent better ones.

especially the lager=kurosh lol

Barron

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

I did not want my screen name revealed, but since diablo has done it, I will go ahead and answer.

There are 3 levels of poker. You reach the first level after you understand the fundamentals, pot odds, when to raise to knock players out, etc. You know the "standard" play in every hand. At the second level, you start to make read-based plays. You bluff-raise the river to knock that maniac off his ace-high with your queen-high. You call the river with 22 on a AK484 board because the guy bluffs all the time.

The third level you do not see much on 2p2 because only a few understand it. It is when you begin to feel poker. There is no more thought. You just feel when your decisions are right. You can call with ten high and KNOW it is good. You can check out Daniel Negreanu's blog and see him talking of such things.

Once you reach the third level, then you can make the millions. GL.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

kurosh,

Sorry, did not realize it was a secret, I thought everyone knew.

Is there a reason why you post a lot of your fun low/mid-limit hands here, but don't post many of your high-stakes 500/1000 hands? Is it like you're willing to teach people the first and second level, but you want to keep the third level to yourself? Do you talk to guys like Daniel about the third level stuff?

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Well, IF they are so good is it not almost like a law of nature that THEY HAVE TO POST at 2 plus 2 forums. I cannot think that they got up so high without reading 2 plus 2.

Take thesalmon. Are there any post from this guy on 2 plus 2? I guess no. How can he be that good then? I heard he earns like millions.

Comments please.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is kinda funny. it would be even funnier if poker_n00b was proven to not be a gimmick account.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

Diablo,

Well, there is a bit I have to explain. They are not actually low/mid-limit hands. I'm sure you have noticed when someone posts a high limit hand, most people who respond feel like their opinions are not worthy because they do not play that high. So, generally, I divide the stakes by a factor of 10 or so and post it. The responses are more honest that way.

I also never post third level hands. Those are not the kinds of hands you can post. No one would understand why I 3-bet the turn with jack high. I don't think it can be taught. It is something you must feel.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

My impression of CaaarlFan (from railing) is that he is a loser in those games. By his own admission he dropped 40k at 200/400 and +80k at 100/200 in about ten days, and then proceded to play 100/200 6 max with a 100-150BB bankroll. That, and the fact that he is constantly whining, insulting other players and getting into arguments with railbirds make him seem very unbalanced (though quite fun to watch).

Question for kurosh about online vs. B&M
 

I may have gotten bad information, but someone at the Bellagio on Dec.7 pointed to a guy playing 200-400 and said it was you. If it was, how would you compare the skill of the live players, like Terri, who (assuming it was you) was sitting directly across from you, to your online opponents? Other posters (bicyclekick?) have said she is one of the best regulars in that game, and I was just wondering how the best live players stacked up against the best online players. If it wasn't you at the Bellagio, then I apologize for wasting your time.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

I think it's kind of a silly statement to make that if you are a great poker player you have to post or have posted on 2+2. I and plenty others I know, have learned how to play winning poker without ever reading a book (granted I lost a few thousand to get there, and I don't claim to be a great player just a winning one). Like most endeavors in life, becoming a winning player is in my opinion more a function of aptitude, not education. However, I have no doubt 2+2 facilitates the path to becoming a winning player. To say that if you are a winning player you have to post/posted on 2+2 is like saying to be a successful in business you have to have recieved an MBA from a top university.

-the bolivian

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I did not want my screen name revealed, but since diablo has done it, I will go ahead and answer.

There are 3 levels of poker. You reach the first level after you understand the fundamentals, pot odds, when to raise to knock players out, etc. You know the "standard" play in every hand. At the second level, you start to make read-based plays. You bluff-raise the river to knock that maniac off his ace-high with your queen-high. You call the river with 22 on a AK484 board because the guy bluffs all the time.

The third level you do not see much on 2p2 because only a few understand it. It is when you begin to feel poker. There is no more thought. You just feel when your decisions are right. You can call with ten high and KNOW it is good. You can check out Daniel Negreanu's blog and see him talking of such things.

Once you reach the third level, then you can make the millions. GL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow kurosh, I didn't knew u were Lagerborg. Hell yeah Im gonna read all ur posts lol.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

I NEVER POSTED HERE BEFORE THIS MONTH, AND MY WINNINGS COULD BUY THIS SITE.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

Hi Hoyt:

I doubt very much that your winnings could buy this site. But just in case I'm wrong, how much are you willing to fork over? We'll let you know if that is enough. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

best wishes,
Mason

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

Between you and Zee, you guys use perfect capitalization. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I hope you post some more in the future, BTW.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

Mason,

That was a pretty good burn. You may be underestimating the value of Subway shops, though.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Diablo,

Well, there is a bit I have to explain. They are not actually low/mid-limit hands. I'm sure you have noticed when someone posts a high limit hand, most people who respond feel like their opinions are not worthy because they do not play that high. So, generally, I divide the stakes by a factor of 10 or so and post it. The responses are more honest that way.

I also never post third level hands. Those are not the kinds of hands you can post. No one would understand why I 3-bet the turn with jack high. I don't think it can be taught. It is something you must feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you get it to pretend its 10limits lower than it is in PT??

[ QUOTE ]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/kurosh/joke.jpg
ouch

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

bottomset,

You just have to go in and edit each individual hand history file. It's quite easy, really.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

You're not familiar with photoshop? Or MSPaint?

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

holla

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pn,

All three post here.

Caarlfan = 2+2 NLfool
Lagerborg = 2+2 kurosh
thesalmon = 2+2 raptor517

[/ QUOTE ]

im curious now.. why i would share this knowledge with anyone. if everyone knows how to get rich off poker, i wont make as much. simple as that. im willing to talk about hands, give my thoughts and inputs here and there, but i wont ever reveal my secrets that separate me from mere mortals. holla

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

so does this mean holla = some kind of scandinavian [censored] slang now? My eyes have been opened.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I NEVER POSTED HERE BEFORE THIS MONTH, AND MY WINNINGS COULD BUY THIS SITE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, Mr All in drops by. Nice to see you here.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

I'd also never read any poker book.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pn,

All three post here.

Caarlfan = 2+2 NLfool
Lagerborg = 2+2 kurosh
thesalmon = 2+2 raptor517

[/ QUOTE ]

BS. Lagerborg could only DREAM of being Kurosh. HU Kurosh is a favorite over Chuck Norris.

OT Chuck Norris Link
 

[ QUOTE ]
BS. Lagerborg could only DREAM of being Kurosh. HU Kurosh is a favorite over Chuck Norris.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

It would be interesting to hear any suggestion about how high you can move up until you need 2nd level qualities and where 3rd level of poker "sense" is necessary?

Re: Question for kurosh about online vs. B&M
 

[ QUOTE ]
I may have gotten bad information, but someone at the Bellagio on Dec.7 pointed to a guy playing 200-400 and said it was you. If it was, how would you compare the skill of the live players, like Terri, who (assuming it was you) was sitting directly across from you, to your online opponents? Other posters (bicyclekick?) have said she is one of the best regulars in that game, and I was just wondering how the best live players stacked up against the best online players. If it wasn't you at the Bellagio, then I apologize for wasting your time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The top online opponents are MUCH tougher. Like not even that close IMO.

The online games are so much harder in general. Not ALWAYS the case as from time to time you can really find some gems, but in general like the 100/200 party is way harder than say the 200/400 bellagio from my limited experiance.

Re: Question for kurosh about online vs. B&M
 

[ QUOTE ]
The online games are so much harder in general. Not ALWAYS the case as from time to time you can really find some gems, but in general like the 100/200 party is way harder than say the 200/400 bellagio from my limited experiance.

[/ QUOTE ]

What game does the 200/400 compare to on Party? 50/100? 30/60?

Re: Question for kurosh about online vs. B&M
 

Yeah maybe the 50/100?

MB it also feels easier cause I can focus so much more when only one table and I'm taking the limit very seriously. That might be influencing it...

Re: Question about those highrollers and their skill.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pn,

All three post here.

Caarlfan = 2+2 NLfool
Lagerborg = 2+2 kurosh
thesalmon = 2+2 raptor517

[/ QUOTE ]

El D,

Great, now they're going to have to change their 2+2 names again. I mean, if it wasn't enough that theredpill had to leave because of this, now they might too. Sheesh. Take a little thought into your posts before you do something rash again.