4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

Should I call this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB (t1350)
Hero (t1490)
UTG+1 (t1330)
MP1 (t1470)
MP2 (t1380)
MP3 (t1750)
CO (t1740)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1520)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t20, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t140</font>, SB calls t130, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ?

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

sure, why not

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

I wouldn't call this because you are OOP and there are players yet to act who may also raise. He must have a good hand and the only way you can win is if you flop a set and I just don't think it's worth risking another 120 chips to try to do so.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

I think its fairly read dependant. in a 4.40 i doubt the other two guys are folding so the pot is getting fairly large and if you hit your set you should be able to stack at least one of em... I would call for set value but do not get crazy if you miss...

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

No. There are already two people who say they are ahead of you. Plus, you are out of position and have no maneuvering room if you don't flop a set.

If you call in a $4 here, all the other limpers behind you could easily call and then without a flop of 9A9 there is no way to know your hand is good, and no way to extract.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

er, umm, you're getting 3:1 already. if 1 or 2 limpers call, then you're getting 4:1 or 5:1 effective odds. you need to pick up like 600, 480, and 360 chips in each respective scenario to be breakeven. given the size of the pot on the flop and the odds of a continuation bet/overpair/etc, it seems like an easy call to me.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

I think not calling this in a 4.40 is a mistake. People are very passive and a re-raise after your call is unlikely. Also in these huge multi-way pots in small buy in MTT's if you hit your set you are all but guarenteed to get paid off. I cannot remember the last time I hit a huge flop in a 5-way pot like this open pushed and not get called by at least one person.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

fold, you need a set here to win and you can't continue to call past the flop if you dont flop the set. Here is the math. You have 13% chance to flop a set or 1 in 8 times. even with the implied odds of the next two limpers, you are only getting 5 to one on your money. 8:1 to win the hand, 5:1 on your money...so you tell me, is this worth it?

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

umm...the implied odds part means that if you wind up extracting that extra 360 chips or whatever is required for it to be breakeven, then its a call. anything more makes it +EV.

you're confusing pot odds and implied odds. when you have a low pocket pair, you're not playing because you have pot-odds pf, its because of the implied odds

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

so basically what some of you guys are saying is call and fold if no 9 flops. is this really correct early on? I don't really have alot of chips...

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so basically what some of you guys are saying is call and fold if no 9 flops. is this really correct early on?

[/ QUOTE ]

it is in this hand

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I don't really have alot of chips...


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you will when you flop a set

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

Dumb newb opinion, please correct if wrong:

Is the reward worth the risk here? What worries me about this is:

1. Its very early on.
2. This will cost me about 10% of my stack.
3. There are two unknowns behind me so I can't be sure of my pot odds (and I can't be sure that I don't get reraised by one of the two). I understand the implied odds are there, but is now the time to make this play?

There is no rush right now, can I afford to just wait for a better spot?

Edit: OK, you just answered this. Nevermind.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
umm...the implied odds part means that if you wind up extracting that extra 360 chips or whatever is required for it to be breakeven, then its a call. anything more makes it +EV.

you're confusing pot odds and implied odds. when you have a low pocket pair, you're not playing because you have pot-odds pf, its because of the implied odds

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, your right...I am at work and only giving 2+2 half my attention. But if you do call here, and no 9s on the flop, fold would be the correct action.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

No one asks "Why did you just call the BB to start with?"
or "Why didn't you just fold 99 UTG, if you aren't going to be aggressive with them.?"

UTG, make it a 3x raise to 60. Chances are at this point, you have a better idea of where you stand.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

This is close because of the sandwich effect, but the implied odds are huge.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is close because of the sandwich effect, but the implied odds are huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone is somewhat worried about the two guys still to act, but the chance to make a big score if a 9 flops outweighs this risk. Correct?

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

Upon further reflection, I think I agree with DMK in concept here, although I'm still working on putting it in my game. You ARE in fact going to have no problem getting paid off beyond the implied odds needed the one time in 8 you hit your set.

If you hit your set, you bet something on the flop that allows you to either be called for value on a 953 rainbow-type rag flop, or you push and get called on a AQ9 flop two suited (but may still lose 20% of the time).

If your style allows you to be comfortable starting 7 tournaments with 1350 instead of 1500 and on the eighth either doubling or tripling up or occasionally busting out, then a call is appropriate. If you prefer to have the opportunity to isolate and extract, wait for a better spot.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is close because of the sandwich effect, but the implied odds are huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone is somewhat worried about the two guys still to act, but the chance to make a big score if a 9 flops outweighs this risk. Correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. 1 in about 8 times you will probably double up.

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is close because of the sandwich effect, but the implied odds are huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone is somewhat worried about the two guys still to act, but the chance to make a big score if a 9 flops outweighs this risk. Correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not worried about the 2 left to act at all. there's less than 1% chance they reraise here

Re: 4/180 Pocket 9s - call preflop raise?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is close because of the sandwich effect, but the implied odds are huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone is somewhat worried about the two guys still to act, but the chance to make a big score if a 9 flops outweighs this risk. Correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not worried about the 2 left to act at all. there's less than 1% chance they reraise here

[/ QUOTE ]