I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

Absolute Poker 0.10/0.25, sorry about the convertor but I think it doesn'T work for absolute NL ring game, correct me if I'm wrong. No read just sat at the table, what's my plan when he raises me on the flop?


Seat 3 - BOWSKI222 ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 5 - KARELL11 ($13.25 in chips)
Seat 6 - MIBEAR ($8.90 in chips)
Seat 7 - SMELLYCATCH ($45.39 in chips)
Seat 8 - FOLDINGQUADZ ($10.05 in chips)
Seat 9 - MIKEYLIKEY ($29.30 in chips)
Seat 1 - HERO ($32.95 in chips)
Seat 2 - GAMBINO830 ($11.15 in chips)
KARELL11 - Posts small blind $0.10
MIBEAR - Posts big blind $0.25
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to WILL221 [Qs Ac]
SMELLYCATCH - Folds
FOLDINGQUADZ - Folds
MIKEYLIKEY - Folds
HERO - Raises $1 to $1
GAMBINO830 - Calls $1
BOWSKI222 - Folds
KARELL11 - Folds
MIBEAR - Folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd 3h 6d]
HERO- Bets $1
GAMBINO830 - Raises $2.50 to $2.50
HERO?

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

I like calling and then leading the turn to a non diamond here and folding to a raise. 3-betting with no reads on the flop doesn't seem to great for me, not to mention you make the pot huge when he just calls.

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

I'd call, planning to bet a blank turn. He might be trying to snap off a CBet here. Also, bet the pot, not just 1/2 of it. He may have sensed weakness here, hence my theory that he's trying to snap your cbet.

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

My CB are usually 1/2 pot whether I hit or miss, should i bet more like 3/4 to full in either case?

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like calling and then leading the turn to a non diamond here and folding to a raise. 3-betting with no reads on the flop doesn't seem to great for me, not to mention you make the pot huge when he just calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems absolutely solid to me. While my initial reaction to the op's dilemma was to re-raise, I like your line much better...

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

I like to bet 2/3 to a full. Gives better value for when I actually hit and I feel that it shows more strength, inducing more folds

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

[ QUOTE ]
My CB are usually 1/2 pot whether I hit or miss, should i bet more like 3/4 to full in either case?

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At small-stakes, this makes sense. Half-pot continuation bets just don't get the job done. Make it 3/4-to-full pot, depending on what you're most comfortable with. The 3/4 bets give you better odds on your continuations, and the full pots give you bigger pots when you hit. As a result, I like LAG players to bet 3/4, but TAG players to bet the full pot, simply because LAG players have a higher c-bet-to-value-bet ratio than TAGs do.

Oh, and I agree with the other posters: call the bet and lead any non-diamond turn (solidly, say for the full pot), folding to a raise.

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

will,

Your cbets should be between 2/3 pot and pot...with most of them being nearer to pot. Given stack sizes, I like a push on the flop...he has a weaker queen often and will call the push IMO.

To those saying call and lead a blank turn....a) check stack sizes. b) Why the non-diamond turn? If you think he has a flush draw...raise!!

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

thanks a lot Pokey, but I' wondering if a Potsize CB against a player I know will call with any piece of the baord of any type of draw is good or even a high card? I guess I should bet less against these type of player and go full pot against "normal" opponent?

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

[ QUOTE ]
will,

Your cbets should be between 2/3 pot and pot...with most of them being nearer to pot. Given stack sizes, I like a push on the flop...he has a weaker queen often and will call the push IMO.

To those saying call and lead a blank turn....a) check stack sizes. b) Why the non-diamond turn? If you think he has a flush draw...raise!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the many reasons I remain an undisputed donk...

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

[ QUOTE ]
To those saying call and lead a blank turn....a) check stack sizes.

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Ooops; in that case, "call and PUSH a blank turn."
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b) Why the non-diamond turn? If you think he has a flush draw...raise!!


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't necessarily think he has a flush draw; rather, I think he has "something." That something could be a set, two pair, one pair, or a flush draw. If the flush draw misses, I'm ahead much more often against his range than if the flush draw hits, especially since I don't have any diamonds. So, pushing against a non-flush seems more +EV than pushing against a flush. At a high-stakes table, I'd have to consider bluffing the diamond, but here our folding equity's in the crapper, so I'm looking ahead to showdown.

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

Pokey,

this might be me being silly, But I still don't get this push non-diamond turn lark.

Now if we push flop and he folds a flush draw, he's also folding the flush draw on the turn, so all we've done is let him draw for free.

However, he might be one of those chaser types. But those would most likely call a flush draw with 2 cards to come, but not with 1....and we WANT him to call with only a flush draw. So in both sinarios...it's more +EV to push on the flop!!

Oh yeah, also if wa call and a diamond hits, we might scare him off a KQ/QJ type hand

Re: I\'m lost and this is basic...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now if we push flop and he folds a flush draw, he's also folding the flush draw on the turn, so all we've done is let him draw for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn it, dbitel, the more you talk, the more sense you make. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Here WAS my thought process: three-betting has no folding equity, but stop-and-go usually DOES have folding equity.

You, however, were annoying enough to point out the truth: against villain's range, we're probably doing pretty solidly, so we don't WANT folding equity. And if villain is ahead of TPTK, we're not folding him out whether we three-bet OR stop-and-go. Our best choice is to three-bet all-in and roll them dice.

I admit it: you're right. Thanks -- you just fixed my thinking on this issue.

*Note to self: don't go for the "max folding equity" situation when the only hands that you could fold are ones that you beat.*