Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060320/...ed_sox_trade_1

IMO, looks like one of those trades that has benefits for both teams. As as Sox fan, I approve -- as much as I liked having starting pitching depth, Trot Nixon's ability to stay healthy is an ever-growing concern; that and, he never did learn how to his lefties.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

you beat me by a minute!

1st impression: don't like the deal for the Red Sox. Bronson was a dependable 3rd/4th starter making cheap money. He'd also proven he could thrive under Boston pressure.

Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

Plus Pena has a dumb name.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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you beat me by a minute!

1st impression: don't like the deal for the Red Sox. Bronson was a dependable 3rd/4th starter making cheap money. He'd also proven he could thrive under Boston pressure.

Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

Plus Pena has a dumb name.

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The Reds are definitely getting some value here. I think this trade made a lot of sense for both teams. I certainly liked Arroyo's versatility (and I guess Theo is now out band-mate for Hot Stove Cool Music).

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

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I think you are on crack.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

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I think you are on crack.

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please explain (the value part, not the crack part).

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

Good deal for Sox. They need to make moves at some point to free up spots for guys like Papelbon, Hansen, and Lester, who are nearly ready.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

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I think you are on crack.

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please explain (the value part, not the crack part).

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The Red Sox have a bunch of young guys in the system that they are obviously ready to showcase. As I recall, Arroyo had basically already been demoted to the pen.

On the other hand, Pena put up some really good numbers the last 2 years, playing 50-65% of the games for the Reds. The ballpark may have had a large part to do with those numbers, but still.

I think giving up Pena is a big loss to just get a middle of the road 'starter' in Arroyo.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

Good trade for the Sox IMO, Pena will add some depth in the OF and Bronson is just ehh, average at SP

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Pena has decent numbers and is young, but I gotta think Arroyo is more valuable.

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I think you are on crack.

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please explain (the value part, not the crack part).

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The Red Sox have a bunch of young guys in the system that they are obviously ready to showcase. As I recall, Arroyo had basically already been demoted to the pen.

On the other hand, Pena put up some really good numbers the last 2 years, playing 50-65% of the games for the Reds. The ballpark may have had a large part to do with those numbers, but still.



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ok, I didn't realize he only played 100/110 games. his OPS #'s, though, dont jump out as any more than average/slightly above average. I wouldn't call his numbers (19 homers and 51 RBIs last season) "really good", especially for a RF, especially in that park.

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I think giving up Pena is a big loss to just get a middle of the road 'starter' in Arroyo.

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guys that can win 14 games who will make under $12m for the next 3 years aren't exactly easy to come by

EDIT: yes, the Sox needed to trade a pitcher. but, that doesn't make it ok to not get equivalent value when they do make a trade

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

This trade also gives the Red Sox a body to put in CF in case something happens to Crisp/Crisp needs a day off (with all due respect to Adam Stern). If I'm not mistaken, Pena has a better UZR in center than he does in RF, which sounds strange to me, but I'm fairly certain I remember seeing that.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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This trade also gives the Red Sox a body to put in CF in case something happens to Crisp/Crisp needs a day off (with all due respect to Adam Stern).

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I don't see Pena in Boston's CF.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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This trade also gives the Red Sox a body to put in CF in case something happens to Crisp/Crisp needs a day off (with all due respect to Adam Stern).

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I don't see Pena in Boston's CF.

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Surely, Crisp will be getting 98% of the time in CF; but before the trade, the Red Sox had Adam Stern has a backup CF. Pena can play all three OF positions, and he adds nice depth when someone needs a day off/someone goes down.

I like Adam Stern, but this is definitely an upgrade.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

This is a good trade for the Sox. Pena has his problems and will probably never have a high OBP, but putting up the numbers he did at age 22 and 23 is very impressive. The Sox not only give themselves a great platoon option for Trot this season, they also set themselves up to take advantage of what should be Pena's 4-5 peak seasons afterwards. Another move that makes the Sox younger too.

Arroyo was a nice guy to have at cost, but he was nothing special and not a marked improvement above other options either in the rotation or in the bullpen.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy

who the hell is playing the other of/1b slot if dunn is back in the of?

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy

who the hell is playing the other of/1b slot if dunn is back in the of?

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Ryan Freel?

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy



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I don't see how this can hurt you unless you are in a AL or NL only league.
Both players numbers should get better.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy

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me too. i was hoping Bronson would get dealt to a pitcher's park.

on the other hand, i just dealt Wily Mo for Jeff Mathis and 2 picks on the assumption that he'd be finally playing full time. score one for me

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

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why?

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

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why?

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From 04 to 05:
His ERA went up 1/2 a run
WHIP went up 10 points
Ks went from 147 to 100
H/9 went up 1/2 a hit

all this, and his IP went up ~30 innings

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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This trade also gives the Red Sox a body to put in CF in case something happens to Crisp/Crisp needs a day off (with all due respect to Adam Stern). If I'm not mistaken, Pena has a better UZR in center than he does in RF, which sounds strange to me, but I'm fairly certain I remember seeing that.

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small sample sizes apply, of course. pinto's numbers seem to really like wily, but I'm not sure I like pinto's numbers.

can't find uzr on wily mo, which is weird. nixon is in general pretty bad since his injury, so even if pena is bad in right it shouldn't matter that much defensively. I mean, hell, coco > damon defensively in all likelihood, I think the d is probably upgraded this year.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

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why?

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From 04 to 05:
His ERA went up 1/2 a run
WHIP went up 10 points
Ks went from 147 to 100
H/9 went up 1/2 a hit

all this, and his IP went up ~30 innings

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keep in mind that the run environment went down in the AL, too. it was a pretty large dropoff in value, although he's still an above average-starter and he's death against rhb.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

pena's uzrs are really terrible

he seems like a pretty mediocre player right now all things considered. good bench player.

still a crazy steal for the sox though. he, more than just about any player ever, has the "but he could turn into sammy sosa!" thing going for him. the odds of him putting it all together don't have to be very high for the reds to have really [censored] up here

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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still a crazy steal for the sox though.

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rofl.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

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why?

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From 04 to 05:
His ERA went up 1/2 a run
WHIP went up 10 points
Ks went from 147 to 100
H/9 went up 1/2 a hit

all this, and his IP went up ~30 innings

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ok, but k/9 is only a part of what is causing those results.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy

who the hell is playing the other of/1b slot if dunn is back in the of?

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Ryan Freel?

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If they were smart, they'd use Chris Denorfia in center, Griffey and Kearns in the corners, and Dunn at 1B.

Since they're not smart, the at bats will probably go to Freel or Quinton McCracken.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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Good move for the Reds. Crowded outfield less crowded and quality arm joins the starting staff. And Arroyo has playoff experience.

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I think this move sucks for the reds unless arroyo k/9 improves.

also, this [censored] me so hard in fantasy

who the hell is playing the other of/1b slot if dunn is back in the of?

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Ryan Freel?

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If they were smart, they'd use Griffey in no situation that requires him to take the field, ever

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Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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pena's uzrs are really terrible

he seems like a pretty mediocre player right now all things considered. good bench player.

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mediocre seems harsh. i saw him in Chattanooga and he was one hell of a first base coach.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

as a reds fan, i'm pleased with the deal...

we need pitching, and we already have a strike out king on the roster. (adam dunn)

edit - you Sox fans are in for a treat when/if Willy Mo gets to the outfield... quite possibly the worst defensive outfielder i've ever seen.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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as a reds fan, i'm pleased with the deal...

we need pitching, and we already have a strike out king on the roster. (adam dunn)

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yeah god forbid the roster had more adam dunns [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

nate, care to give us a preview of BPros take on this? I have to see it as a huge + for the red sox as PECOTA values pena over arroyo and pena is still cost controlled (not sure about cash in this deal).

i am confused as to why cincy would do this.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

LOL, Arroyo is a flyball pitcher going to one of the smallest parks in the country. He is gonna be just as good as Eric Milton was. The Reds FO is not too bright.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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nate, care to give us a preview of BPros take on this? I have to see it as a huge + for the red sox as PECOTA values pena over arroyo and pena is still cost controlled (not sure about cash in this deal).

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Obviously, it's a fine deal for the Sox. But you knew that.

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i am confused as to why cincy would do this.

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A lot of times, teams will think of "need" in a very literal way. The Reds clearly "need" some pitching. But, there really isn't any benefit in filling that need unless you have a surplus somewhere else; otherwise you just shift that need to a different position.

Basically, the Reds belong with the Rockies and the Royals on baseball's short bus.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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i am confused as to why cincy would do this.

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Because of an overcrowded outfield, weak pitching, and an offense that is already very good. Peña is decent, but I would rather have Kearns, Griffey, Dunn out there. Peña's defense is rather lackluster.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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i am confused as to why cincy would do this.

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Because of an overcrowded outfield, weak pitching, and an offense that is already very good. Peña is decent, but I would rather have Kearns, Griffey, Dunn out there. Peña's defense is rather lackluster.

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remember they have a 1b need because they dealt casey.

and for why this f-s me in fantasy, go look at pena's rank vs production.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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i am confused as to why cincy would do this.

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Because of an overcrowded outfield, weak pitching, and an offense that is already very good. Peña is decent, but I would rather have Kearns, Griffey, Dunn out there. Peña's defense is rather lackluster.

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yes, but they still suck and traded a possible stud. i mean, what does this deal do for them? make them a 75 win team instead of a 74 win team in 06?

just seems the reds should stockpile these young guys and worry about pitching when it will actually matter. also, i think pena is a better bet going forward than kearns, and i love them both.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

check out some of those dingers.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

My first thought was that the Reds would play Scott Hatteberg at 1B and move Dunn back to left, and that may very well be what they actually do. He's been having a great spring, as has Dewayne Wise, a blazing fast CF who played some with the Braves last year.

It does seem like kind of an odd deal for the Reds to give up a guy who seemingly has a lot of potential, but...they get a young, cheap, serviceable SP to bolster the rotation, and gave up a pretty brutal defensive OF who, while sporting amazing power, has no plate discipline and is gonna be a low OBP guy. There is absolutely no comparison between him and an OPS machine like Dunn. Although I do think he'll maul left-handers platooning with Nixon, which I guess is what the Sox want him to do.

As a Reds fan I'd probably rather have Pena than Kearns, as Kearns has just been consistently awful, but a lot of ppl apparently still see something in him, and Pena has some red flags.

All in all I'm happy with the deal, if for no other reason than I'm just glad they're finally DOING something. Last summer was a disaster that they didn't get anything done. I'm a little wary of Arroyo becoming the next Milton, but I trust Krivsky a lot more than I did O'Brien. I think he might actually know what he's doing.

Now if someone will just take Griffey before he gets hurt...

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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also, i think pena is a better bet going forward than kearns, and i love them both.

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I agree that Pena is a little better bet going forward, but what is there to love about Kearns? A lot of ppl seem to agree with you, but...he's been pretty awful and looked bad doing it. Also a lot of questions about work ethic, attitude, etc...last year he was overweight, blasted the organization for not playing him every day even though he was awful, so they sent him to AAA where he could play every day and told him to lose some weight and he blasted them for that too.

I just don't see a lot to be optimistic about. All he has on his resume is a good half-season 3 years ago. Been pretty terrible since then when not injured which has been often.

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

If the Sox were gonna make a trade...they shoulda traded for a third baseman. Cuz Lowell is gonna suck hard this year

Re: Red Sox Trade Arroyo to Reds for Wily Mo Pena
 

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remember they have a 1b need because they dealt casey.

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Freel can play basically anywhere, which is huge. I like this trade, the Reds have to make some kind of move, and you can't deny that their pitching isn't anything special.