flop nuts, T/R suck
 

Villian is 60/11 with AF of 3.23 over 106 hands
Im at 20/15/5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $14</font>, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($46, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $33</font>, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($112, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $100</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($312, 2 players)
Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: $312

500.00 deep

Flop play is standard, but turn play? Riv?

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

wouldve lead turn and shoved if he raised

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

what he said

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

and bet more on the flop :\

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

yeah. he's probably not betting worse on the turn so c/r is no good. just get it in yourself with your 1,000,000 outs if you are actually behind.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
wouldve lead turn and shoved if he raised

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

when u check call the turn i think you give away where you are in the hand and i think the real question should be what would u have done if he value bets the riv

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
when u check call the turn i think you give away where you are in the hand and i think the real question should be what would u have done if he value bets the riv

[/ QUOTE ]

....im not sure you give away exactly AA, but agreed, I don't see the point of putting a lot of $ in on the turn. Your hand doesn't have nearly as much value as it did on the flop; im not sure how many second best hands are mathematically and realistically possible here for your villian. I woulda just checked and called, or perhaps bet about 1/2 the pot on the turn. The riv is pretty tricky, you could possibly lead out with a small bet to try and get a cheap showdown, but any smart opponent may read this for what it is...i would prob check and decide whether to call based upon my read and the amount bet on the river...

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

how much did the villain bet on the riv?

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

As played I think its an easy fold. He will check anything you beat.
As for the advice to bet/3bet allin on turn. I dont see why this is good. [ QUOTE ]
yeah. he's probably not betting worse on the turn so c/r is no good. just get it in yourself with your 1,000,000 outs if you are actually behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
You dont have that many outs, probably 8 or 9, with one card to come and you are a bit deeper than a buyin. I think a Bet/fold is okay too, I dont think a bluff raise is likely. But so far I am the only one who doesnt like bet/3bet allin on turn.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played I think its an easy fold. He will check anything you beat.
As for the advice to bet/3bet allin on turn. I dont see why this is good. [ QUOTE ]
yeah. he's probably not betting worse on the turn so c/r is no good. just get it in yourself with your 1,000,000 outs if you are actually behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
You dont have that many outs, probably 8 or 9, with one card to come and you are a bit deeper than a buyin. I think a Bet/fold is okay too, I dont think a bluff raise is likely. But so far I am the only one who doesnt like bet/3bet allin on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do notice he has the Ad right?

So any diamond, any paired board. That's more than 8 or 9 outs.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

I did not notice that. So basically I would have to re-think the whole scenario. and my post is probably now useless. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

the flop looks a little weak i think you can get away with at least $36 there. on the turn i would fire again, at least 3/4 of the pot.

i don't see a reason to get tricky here. this guy is splashing around a lot and is very aggressive for his vpip stats, play your hand strong and let him do something stupid. by checking the turn the hand gets awkward. maybe he floated the flop and now is bluffing, but if you c/r he'll give up. if you just fire the turn tho, maybe he'll shove trying to rep something and you can get his whole stack.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

villian insta bets 264 on river after my check...
???

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

That diamond does change a lot, and I now I like the bet/3bet on turn. I also feel very relieved because at first I thought, I was either playing really weak or everyone was crazy for saying bet/3bet.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

Fold River. What does he call you with on the Flop that you beat at this point? He probably doesn;t have an ace because you got 2 of them and the board has 1 of them. I think he would have raised T9 on the flop.

The only thing you could possibly beat that he would call the flop bet with is J8.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]

You dont have that many outs, probably 8 or 9, with one card to come and you are a bit deeper than a buyin. I think a Bet/fold is okay too, I dont think a bluff raise is likely. But so far I am the only one who doesnt like bet/3bet allin on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


Top set + Nut flush draw is not that many outs?

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

LOLOLOLOLOLL at b/f the turn ahahahhahahah

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

bet turn for whatever amount you think will induce and then scream LOL GOT YA and shove

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
villian insta bets 264 on river after my check...
???

[/ QUOTE ]

he could be turning a lot of hands into a bluff on the river b/c of your line. also the insta bet in this situation with this villain looks bluffy to me. maybe he rivered two pair and hes like 'zomg he check i has two pair what do i do bet for value or yeah i rep straight idk lolololol :mash bet big button:.'

so id call, but i don't like the turn check/call line. Although by taking this line you could've just let him value town himself. So it may have worked out as a dumb/scared type of line that he was trying to take advantage of. basically inducing bluffs. i guess if im advocating a call i should be happy about it but its still kind of a bleh spot he basically has to be bluffing here, but this guy looks like that type so without getting into the exact math my instinct says a call is +ev here.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You dont have that many outs, probably 8 or 9, with one card to come and you are a bit deeper than a buyin. I think a Bet/fold is okay too, I dont think a bluff raise is likely. But so far I am the only one who doesnt like bet/3bet allin on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


Top set + Nut flush draw is not that many outs?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I did not notice that. So basically I would have to re-think the whole scenario. and my post is probably now useless.


[/ QUOTE ]
Obv. in light of having the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], a bet fold on turn is not viable.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

My thinking in hand:

It was an insta flop call by villian (forgot to mention that), with one other player to act . So the QJ and FD are his range mainly, whereas all 2 pair hands are raising me, id think. Due to the worst card in the deck coming and completing both draws, I thought a bet would have him fold out everthing but hands that beat me (flush and/or straights) And I knew that if i bet, im committed to pot, a pot in which id prolly be behind, even if he is fishy. Once i check and he bet 100, this is one of three hands, IMO.
1. Flush/straight
2. TURNED 2 pair
3. Bluff (with maybe a high diamond, some nasty gut, weak T, w/e)

Those three make up almost all of his range. With that said, I wanted to just call, b/c nearly every river is good for me, and given my line, is deceptive (deception to a fish, what am i thinking???). And I may check certain rivers for him to bluff at.

Hand results in white:

<font color="white">I look up his river bet and Villian has Qh 8h </font>

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

Anyway, not sure if analysis was right/wrong, but that was going through my head as I was 6 tabling.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

bet the flop harder, bet/call the turn.

Re: flop nuts, T/R suck
 

yuck to checking the turn and even more yuck to checking the river if you hit flush or fill up to let him bluff you.

with the range you put him on i am betting the turn to get it in vs all 3 hands. if he has a straight and a 4 flush hits, you're not getting much out of him. if you fill up you might a little something, might not. just get it in on the turn and see what happens. you are probably good and have outs galore if not.