50NL: What do you call with here?
 

You are a reg at 50NL and run TAG (12/6/3)
Villain is also a reg TAG (14/8/4) and tried to push you off of an overpair on a b/3bet turn bluff


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$19.30</font>)
Villain (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)
MP1 (<font color="#0000cc">$108.00</font>)
MP2 (<font color="#0000cc">$40.30</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$107.65</font>)
CO (<font color="#0000cc">$19.95</font>)
BTN (<font color="#0000cc">$50.25</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$94.70</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is MP3 XX
<font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, Villain calls $0.5, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.5, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, SB calls $0.25, BB checks

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Villain bets $1.2</font>, Hero calls $1.2, <font color="#777777">SB folds</font>, <font color="#777777">BB folds</font>

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.4, 2 players)
Villain checks, Hero checks

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.4, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Villain goes all-in $48.3</font>, Hero calls with...

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

JT, QhJh obv, J9 and J8 as well. Oh, and JJ, lol. 7h6h too.
Every J only hand or overpair is just not worth the risk half your stack in such a small, unraised pot.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

How big of donks are the other 200bb stacks at the table?

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

Pretty donkish, I'd say. What do you put villain on?

Alex, J only or T only?

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

I'm nitty and folding KQ here too.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

Sorry, T only of course...

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

I cannot think of a hand I could hold that I would limp behind with PF, call on the flop, check behind on the turn, and then call this river bet. Not at this level anyway.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$19.30</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)
MP1 (<font color="#0000cc">$108.00</font>)
MP2 (<font color="#0000cc">$40.30</font>)
MP3 (<font color="#0000cc">$107.65</font>)
CO (<font color="#0000cc">$19.95</font>)
BTN (<font color="#0000cc">$50.25</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$94.70</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.5, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls $0.5, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, SB calls $0.25, BB checks

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.2</font>, MP3 calls $1.2, <font color="#777777">SB folds</font>, <font color="#777777">BB folds</font>

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.4, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.4, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero goes all-in $48.3</font>, <font color="#777777">1 fold</font>

Final Pot: $4.40

Hero wins $52.5 ( won +$2.5 )
MP3 lost -$1.70
SB lost -$0.50
BB lost -$0.50


Given that a million and one draws came in on the river, I thought villain might call here with a straight or flush. If this is bad, how much should I be betting here?

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty donkish, I'd say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though this was a trick post, I asked this question because sometimes it is important to consider other table conditions. Given that the other 200bb stacks are bad, I'd be less inclined to call off here than I otherwise would for fear of losing EV against the donks in a situation I could take 200bbs from them instead of 100.

This may not be the best example of that potential scenario, but something that came to mind.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this is bad, how much should I be betting here?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think this is bad. If villain has a hand that he'll call anything with, he will probably call a push. Problem is, a player with those stats is not going to show up very often here with anything he can call with. His turn check implies a weak made hand that he thinks can win in a showdown but wasn't worth protecting against the many draws that suddenly appeared.

The only hand that remotely makes sense to me that can call anything with here is 99.

I think you played the hand fine- just not much value to get against a reasonably tight player.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

As soon as you asked, I understood why you were asking, and that's something that I rarely consider at the table. Losing the hand is one thing, but being able to smash donks for 200BB in one hand is certainly at least as important. Thanks Berge. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

Everything better than 88.

*edit* just read the entire thread.

1) J8 and J9 are counterfeited 2pair and are just as good as J2. I hope you meant T8 and T9.

2) With T9 I'd bet the turn.

*2nd edit* misread the post, ignore the previous #3

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

Bet the turn. River bet is just silliness. Even bad players can fold KQ to you there. If Villain has boat, he's gonna stack off to this line. However, he probably value-stacks himself anyway if you just bet regular on the river.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Given that a million and one draws came in on the river, I thought villain might call here with a straight or flush. If this is bad, how much should I be betting here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a reasonable player ever will call with a str8 or flush here. Value bet 1/2 pot to full pot, depending on how loose he is on calling big bets.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, he probably value-stacks himself anyway if you just bet regular on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, when all I have left is a PSB then a push is a "regular bet" for me on the river. Perhaps I am too aggressive?

Edit: nevermind- I read the decimal as in the wrong spot.

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, he probably value-stacks himself anyway if you just bet regular on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, when all I have left is a PSB then a push is a "regular bet" for me on the river. Perhaps I am too aggressive?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Am I misreading the hand? Pot is $4.40 and Hero shoves for $48.30 (aka 11 times the size of the pot).

Re: 50NL: What do you call with here?
 

haha- no, I misread the hand.

I agree that a normal value bet is better here.