TPWK draw heavy board
 

PokerStars $0.02/$0.04 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

<font color="green"> All callers are loose </font>

Flop: (5.00 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, SB folds.

<font color="green"> I bet because my hand could likely be best. The scary board makes me less likely to bet. Also, it seems like a lot of people to bet tpwk into. </font>

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

<font color="green">I bet for value </font>

River: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

<font color="green"> I check because draw that didn't get there will fold. If he was calling with jacks he beat me, he could be beating me with a K or an Ace. A nine or pp is all i beat that calls.

So I think I would have bet if the J didn't pair. I don't think I even thought about the BDFD at the time.

I'm not sure why I called the river bet. </font>

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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I'm not sure why I called the river bet.

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Because checking may have induced a bluff, and you could still be ahead (or at least chopping).

I don't see anything wrong with how this was played.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

This line looks fine to me. You probably win or chop often enough to make the call on the river.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

I'd check and see on the flop. The pot is smallish, your hand isn't that great and that board is very drawy. What I do after checking depends on who bets and how many call.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

I like your line.

Flop - Betting should narrow the field and get Jx, 9x, small PP and gutshots to fold. Although Kx, FDs and OESDs will stick around.

Turn - I tend to bet here also HU. Spewy? My reasons are:
1) a bet may win the pot here
2) we may be ahead (value)

IF villian raises, it changes things a little but I tend to call down. spewy?

River - ok, he's not going anywhere...why bet and risk a raise. Just c/c.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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I like your line.

Flop - Betting should narrow the field and get Jx, 9x, small PP and gutshots to fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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"All callers are loose"

i doubt it.

op, i bet this flop about 0% of the time.

-kck

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

Just check this flop. The field is tooo big and the pot is small. THis is a bet against a smaller field. And against a small field with a loose aggressive who fires out when checked to this is a check raise.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like your line.

Flop - Betting should narrow the field and get Jx, 9x, small PP and gutshots to fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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"All callers are loose"

i doubt it.

op, i bet this flop about 0% of the time.

-kck

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Hmmm, now you got me thinking. So if they all call with the hands mentioned above then is it:
1. a value bet since they are individually all -EV? OR
2. bad for us b/c we have to add up all their outs making them +EV against us?

#2 right?

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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Hmmm, now you got me thinking. So if they all call with the hands mentioned above then is it:
1. a value bet since they are individually all -EV? OR
2. bad for us b/c we have to add up all their outs making them +EV against us?

#2 right?

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Actually the main reason it's -EV is because of the possibility of other K's with better kickers out there. Plus the draws don't help.

Fadook's plan of check-and-see will give us additional information. If it's checked around to a late bettor, we are much more likely ahead here.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

By the way, I like the c/c on the river. If villain has a Q or T here he may bluff bet. 9 is also somewhat more likely to bet than to call.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

I check the flop in a field this big. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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I'd check and see on the flop. The pot is smallish, your hand isn't that great and that board is very drawy. What I do after checking depends on who bets and how many call.

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Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

It seems like the more experienced posters think this is a check. I've been thinking about what to do with possible scenarios after I check. I think if there is a bet and some callers, I fold. Even getting 9-1 closing the action?

Do I raise an uncalled late position bet? It seems like the reason I checked was because I have a sorta weak hand in a big field. This makes me think my hand isn't strong enough to raise. Should I instead be thinking this late position bettor could be betting a weaker hand than mine and I can maybe get it heads up with a raise here.

And if its checked around I bet a safe turn. (although it seems like I run into the same problems I did on the flop - big field / could be behind.)

I think this hand was tough for me because I don't have a great hand but I don't want to fold what could very well be the best hand at the moment.

Also I'm embarrased to admit that I just realized that the J pairing counterfeited (more like upgraded) my kicker.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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It seems like the more experienced posters think this is a check. I've been thinking about what to do with possible scenarios after I check. I think if there is a bet and some callers, I fold. Even getting 9-1 closing the action?

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These are the usual check-and-see lines.

* Check-fold if it's bet and raised to you
* Check-call if there is an early position bet and some callers (peel one off to see what the turn card/turn action brings)
* Check-raise if there is a late position bet (all the checks implies weakness in the other players' hands, and there is no reason that the late position bettor must have a strong hand to be betting)

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

grunch

I prefer to "check-and-see" vs this many opponents on the flop. I would be more inclined to bet into say 2 opponents.

On this flop, you probably won't thin the field with a single bet, however, you might get the chance to c/r a LP bet and show the field 2 bets.

If I go to the turn with one or two opponents I will lead most turns.

I will probably c/c most rivers.

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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These are the usual check-and-see lines.

* Check-fold if it's bet and raised to you
* Check-call if there is an early position bet and some callers (peel one off to see what the turn card/turn action brings)
* Check-raise if there is a late position bet (all the checks implies weakness in the other players' hands, and there is no reason that the late position bettor must have a strong hand to be betting)

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thank you

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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It seems like the more experienced posters think this is a check. I've been thinking about what to do with possible scenarios after I check. I think if there is a bet and some callers, I fold. Even getting 9-1 closing the action?

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the usual check-and-see lines.

* Check-fold if it's bet and raised to you
* Check-call if there is an early position bet and some callers (peel one off to see what the turn card/turn action brings)
* Check-raise if there is a late position bet (all the checks implies weakness in the other players' hands, and there is no reason that the late position bettor must have a strong hand to be betting)

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Solid

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: TPWK draw heavy board
 

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2. bad for us b/c we have to add up all their outs making them +EV against us?

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Well, that seems to neatly sum up the concept of "Implicit Collusion" of loose players. [BTW, I basically like your line, but don't put much weight on my opinion!]