AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

Opponent is new the the room and I have no reads.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero...

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

I don't, but I've been playing weak ass tight.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

What would you give as a generic preflop 3-betting range for an unknown villain in his position?

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

Against an unknown this is an easy call.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

TT-AA plus AK and maybe AQs

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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TT-AA plus AK and maybe AQs

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How many of those hands do you beat on the river? How many beat you? How many of those hands make sense as played by villain? What are your pot odds?

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

The only hand the makes sense to me on the river is TT because why not raise the turn with QQ JJ, and not raise the flop with KK or AA? But you never know with some people.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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The only hand the makes sense to me on the river is TT because why not raise the turn with QQ JJ, and not raise the flop with KK or AA? But you never know with some people.

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Bingo.

I agree that TT is about the only hand that should be raising this river, but since you don't know...

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

The pot is big enough to justify a call here especially against an unknown. Plus if you fold here a lot of observant opponents are going to pummel you with scarecard bluffs.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

feta-
i guarantee you that even though you feel you're choosing tough hands to post, only 1 out of every 736 AA threads contain tough decisions. those are tough odds to beat. find other hands to study. someone said, if you never fold AA in microlevels, you'll be fine. that person was correct.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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I agree that TT is about the only hand that should be raising this river, but since you don't know...

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Does TT really make sense here though? After the flop, villain had third pair on a rainbow board and going to be needing some major help for a straight.

I think slowplaying a set makes more sense.

I probably call, given the pot odds. 1/11.75 means we only need to be good here 9% of the time to show profit, right?

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I agree that TT is about the only hand that should be raising this river, but since you don't know...

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Does TT really make sense here though? After the flop, villain had third pair on a rainbow board and going to be needing some major help for a straight.

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FWIW, if villain puts us on AA-QQ/AK after the flop cap, he's not too wrong by peeling one off getting 12:1 if he thinks we would check with AK on the turn. Then the turn call with about 6 outs doesn't look so bad getting almost 8:1.

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I think slowplaying a set makes more sense.

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It's also a stupid way of playing a flopped set... much worse than if he had TT.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

I call, but I dont like it. I doubt we are good 1 in 9.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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I call, but I dont like it. I doubt we are good 1 in 9.

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Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

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TT-AA plus AK and maybe AQs

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If this is the range you put him on, is the river lead the right play? Or is check/calling a viable option?

I guess what I'm getting at is my thought process seems different from yours. You're betting out and then trying to make the decision to make a crying call or not. For me, there's no way I'm folding my hand when the river comes so my question is do I bet/call, or check/call?

Also, if you increase his range of 3-betting preflop, the board doesn't look any better (88, 99, ATs+).

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

I would tend to bet/call as hands like KK, AK, AQ, AJ and KQ will call but may check behind if you check. Opponents will bluff raise this river sometimes too. When you check you will only induce a bet from a set, a straight, or a bluff. I would love to do some math to figure this out but laziness prevails.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

yay laziness!

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
feta-
i guarantee you that even though you feel you're choosing tough hands to post, only 1 out of every 736 AA threads contain tough decisions. those are tough odds to beat. find other hands to study. someone said, if you never fold AA in microlevels, you'll be fine. that person was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think every noob has to get some AA posts out of his system...and I think I probably have a couple more in my noobishness. I'm sure you remember how frustrating it is as a novice trying to be TAG (and usually succeeding on the "T" much more than the "AG"), waiting for a good hand, getting the best, and seeing it turn to crap in a flop instant...except that maybe TP is going to be good this time, and maybe that's just a pair of Queens raising me, and, and...so while you may be right that sticking around with all AA hands may be +EV there is room for even a noob like me to learn some judgment about handling formerly-primo hole cards. After all, this is a subset of the critical learning area: "Handling TP hands" and a tough one because it's a 2-outer.

Re: AA early, do you make the crying call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
feta-
i guarantee you that even though you feel you're choosing tough hands to post, only 1 out of every 736 AA threads contain tough decisions. those are tough odds to beat. find other hands to study. someone said, if you never fold AA in microlevels, you'll be fine. that person was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think every noob has to get some AA posts out of his system...and I think I probably have a couple more in my noobishness. I'm sure you remember how frustrating it is as a novice trying to be TAG (and usually succeeding on the "T" much more than the "AG"), waiting for a good hand, getting the best, and seeing it turn to crap in a flop instant...except that maybe TP is going to be good this time, and maybe that's just a pair of Queens raising me, and, and...so while you may be right that sticking around with all AA hands may be +EV there is room for even a noob like me to learn some judgment about handling formerly-primo hole cards. After all, this is a subset of the critical learning area: "Handling TP hands" and a tough one because it's a 2-outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

hermie-
sure. i know what you are saying. but seriously. just never fold AA until you internalize that never folding AA and (sometimes) losing is almost definitely good poker at almost all micro tables. at worst, you're likely missing some bets becuase you're not being aggressive enough - but that is different than trying to find a fold with AA.

focus all the energy on TT, JJ, QQ, KK where the decisions will get tougher and you are likely leaking a ton of bets.