10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

I had sat two orbits at this table and villain did not have any plays that were out of line. I know my hand isn't strong enough here on the river to call, but I'm wondering with villain's pot size bet on the river, does he have to beat Kx for a straight when the board pairs on the river. I bet on the turn to represent the King, but he instacalled my bet. I'm thinking at this point, he has some two pair combination. What do you guys all think?


Poker Stars, $10 + $1 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: 10,470
UTG: 2,145
UTG+1: 3,315
MP1: 4,645
MP2: 4,870
CO: 6,525
Hero (BTN): 5,790
SB: 2,650

Pre-Flop: (75) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, <font color="red">MP1 raises to 150</font>, MP2 calls 150, CO folds, Hero calls 150, 2 folds

Flop: (525) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">MP1 bets 200</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls 200

Turn: (925) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
MP1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 400</font>, MP1 calls 400

River: (1,725) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP1 bets 1,550</font>, Hero ????

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

Fold pf

As played, call flop, check behind turn, fold to most river bets

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

I would have checked the turn. If he's bluffing, there's no way you can justify a call with four cards to a straight on the board.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

I know that I'm not calling the river bet. I'm wondering if he has a full house enough here that I would have to lay down Kx if I had it.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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Really...115BB on the button? Also, does anyone raise this flop? I've been playing live maniacal cash games for the last 6 months so my bearings may be off. With that weak lead, I raise the flop. And I take the free river.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

Don't really mind call pre flop this deep on button, esp if villains been aggro. flop call fine too but whatever you do don't bet 400 on turn, that is a complete nothing bet, either 700 to make him think or preferably check behind.

fold river obv and as for laying down a K high straight tough but possible. his line is really strange and doesn't seem bothered about protecting his hand against the multitude of draws, or maybe he just doean't want to built a big pot OOP, AK perhaps? I don't think you're seeing a full too much here as sets and 2pr are gonna be charging the draws more.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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I know that I'm not calling the river bet. I'm wondering if he has a full house enough here that I would have to lay down Kx if I had it.

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He'd be a fool to check call pocket tens, queens, or jacks with the straight and the flush draws on the board.

I'd have a hard time believing he has 9T 9J or 9Q with a preflop raise in middle position with the blinds still at 25/50. 9T is possible, but I'd only consider it if I had seen him raise previously with suited connectors that early in the game.

Besides, he probably just has a busted diamond draw and is pushing you off the hand anyway. The check/call on the turn was suspicious.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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do don't bet 400 on turn, that is a complete nothing bet, either 700 to make him think or preferably check behind.

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Yeah that's what i'm figuring. I should've bet much bigger on the turn. I'm thinking a missed flush b/c he's showed weakness up to the river. Sets, 2-pair, and most better hands, play much more aggressively on flop.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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Really...115BB on the button? Also, does anyone raise this flop? I've been playing live maniacal cash games for the last 6 months so my bearings may be off. With that weak lead, I raise the flop. And I take the free river.

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I think that's the right line.

Preflop call with AJ that deep is fine of course, but the flop is where you should have raised.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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Really...115BB on the button? Also, does anyone raise this flop? I've been playing live maniacal cash games for the last 6 months so my bearings may be off. With that weak lead, I raise the flop. And I take the free river.

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I think that's the right line.

Preflop call with AJ that deep is fine of course, but the flop is where you should have raised.

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I don't get this at all. What are we possibly folding out on that flop with a raise in a $10? Also, does anyone 3bet pre? We're OTB with what is probably the best hand. I usually 3bet this pre, then take it down with a cbet on the rag flop that usually comes.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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Really...115BB on the button? Also, does anyone raise this flop? I've been playing live maniacal cash games for the last 6 months so my bearings may be off. With that weak lead, I raise the flop. And I take the free river.

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I think that's the right line.

Preflop call with AJ that deep is fine of course, but the flop is where you should have raised.

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I don't get this at all. What are we possibly folding out on that flop with a raise in a $10? Also, does anyone 3bet pre? We're OTB with what is probably the best hand. I usually 3bet this pre, then take it down with a cbet on the rag flop that usually comes.

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1.) AJ is too weak for a 3-bet. This is usually a hand you fold to a preflop raise, while we are here nearly 100BBs deep so calling in position is fine.

2.) You are last to act so c-betting as a Go'n'go won't work.

3.) 3betting to lets say 450 lets you cross the commitment threshold, which is not what you want with a hand as week as this. If you hit an ace on the turn you will often stack off to a better ace.

4.) On the flop we have to decide what is our plan. Keep the pot small and try to hit our draw or try to take it down immediately with a semibluff. AS our draw is not very strong (if we hit an 8 on the turn we might stack off to a higher straight) I think making a move to take the pot down on the flop is fine - specially as his flop-bet is really weak.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

I guess I just don't understand your reasoning lev. Do you really think we're behind villains ranges here? Unless I had some sort of read that either of the villains knew what they were doing, I am assuming there is a very good chance that I've got the best hand pre. I'm not saying that I would always 3bet here, I actually usually wouldnt, but I think it's a viable option. The fact that we're last to act is specifically why I would 3bet - if the flop is good and we're checked to, I think another bet takes it down a huge portion of the time.

*edit* forgot to ask, how does 3betting to 450 commit us? We're 100 BB deep...

As far as semibluffing the flop goes, I just think it's a horrible idea. There are so many cards that could come on the turn that would completely shut us down, and I also think theres a decent chance our raise gets re-raised by the original raiser, and even if not, I think our raise gets called almost every time. Am I way off here?

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

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how does 3betting to 450 commit us? We're 100 BB deep...

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I did not say you are committed, but you cross the commitment threshold - this is a cash-game concept (and this hand with 100BB deep is quite similar to a cash-game). It's about how your money goes on on later betting rounds with pot sized bets. If you take this hand as an example, you 3-bet to 450 and hit an ace on the flop. If you think you have the best hand (and to answer your second point here - a jack as kicker is trash - so i'm not sure at all that we are ahead preflop or on an ace-high flop) you have to bet. If we make a PSB and get called there is 3000 in the pot on the turn and now you are committed with top pair.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

Okay, cool, that makes sense. I'd still like to hear an extended explanation on the semi-bluffing thing though, if you're willing. Isn't that board too ugly to semibluff? I just feel that we'd be folding the turn a whole bunch.

Re: 10+1 MTT: Does Villain have to beat King high straight here?
 

HP,

It's an optimistic range that has our AJ ahead preflop. And I still believe you are underestimating our FE on the flop.

In my original response I thought we had more equity against the top part of his range if villain decided to shove our flop raise. In my haste, I did not notice PStove resetting the board and I was looking at preflop equity again rather than post flop, which I mistakenly took to give us enough to call a shove should one arise.

I still think his entire preflop range is represented by that weak lead and we fold out a chunk of it including AK by raising the flop. If he calls, we likely get a free river with decent outs. Standard is probably call flop, ck turn, then whatever on the river. But I am not ready to give up on raising the flop just yet. Looks like a decent spot to grab some chips.

Edit: kaws i keighnt spel