Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

pstars 5/10 6 handed

villain is like 21/17 over smallish sample, no history with this guy.

preflop: villain opens in CO, I call in BB with QJo and we go to the flop HU.

flop K72r: I c/r... he paaaaaaaaaauses, and finally calls.

turn Tr: I bet, he insta-raises and I insta-3bet.

Isn't his turn raise a rebluff or free showdown raise a good portion of the time? Or should I be giving him more credit since we have no history?

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

Give him credit because of no history and his stats say he's a nit. Also, what hand could he be representing? That Ten isn't exactly a big scarecard.

He has to figure that you're calling down with most of then hands that you c/r for value so the only hands he folds out are bluffs.

On top of that I find that very often these "thinking" pauses are just the nuts trying to be tricky. The board is dry so it's not like he has to spend a lot of time figuring out his hidden outs vs pot odds etc.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

Spew

He has Kx or better. When people pause on the flop and insta raise the turn they have TP+ 99.9% of the time in my experience

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

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Isn't his turn raise a rebluff or free showdown raise a good portion of the time? Or should I be giving him more credit since we have no history?

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Coming from a guy with this stats it is a rebluff just about never.A free showdown raise maybe but I wouldn´t get my hopes up high.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

A lot of players have AQ/AJ/QJ here and were thinking what they wanted to do in the hand on the flop and then they "FSD" or semibluff raise the turn when they pick up outs. But you need some history to do this imo. Obviously it's good for image though, since you gotta bet the river.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

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A lot of players have AQ/AJ/QJ here and were thinking what they wanted to do in the hand on the flop and then they "FSD" or semibluff raise the turn when they pick up outs.

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This is exactly what I thought he was thinking about on the flop.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

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A lot of players have AQ/AJ/QJ here and were thinking what they wanted to do in the hand on the flop and then they "FSD" or semibluff raise the turn when they pick up outs. But you need some history to do this imo. Obviously it's good for image though, since you gotta bet the river.

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Wow! The stars games plays so differently than my games.
I´m a tight player and I´m not anywhere near so tight as villain.
When I´m raising turn I have at least a king 100% of the time.
Everyone knows that this is a perfect spot to bluff against a preflopraiser.As a preflop raiser you often don´t have a hand to stand up with.So calling the checkraise on flop and reraising the turn when you have a hand is a must trying to make it expensive for the checkraiser.

If I ever would semibluffraise or raise for a free showdown I would do it because I thought that my opponent were likely to drop a better hand right there.Maybe Efficiacy could let go of a 7 but I wouldn´t hope for that.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

This guy's is probably holding on to a top pair, no kicker hand. He also might have had TT and caught a set.

In either case, you have 8 outs. Call the turn and fold river if you don't hit your straight.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of players have AQ/AJ/QJ here and were thinking what they wanted to do in the hand on the flop and then they "FSD" or semibluff raise the turn when they pick up outs.

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This is exactly what I thought he was thinking about on the flop.

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You don't have a "likes to fsdr" read on the guy. You're just putting him on the hand that you want him to have.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of players have AQ/AJ/QJ here and were thinking what they wanted to do in the hand on the flop and then they "FSD" or semibluff raise the turn when they pick up outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I thought he was thinking about on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have a "likes to fsdr" read on the guy. You're just putting him on the hand that you want him to have.

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http://images.jupiterimages.com/comm...1/22595197.jpg

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

When he raises the turn after pausing for so long on the flop, I figure I'm toast. He was probably thinking about whether to 3-bet the flop or just pop it on the turn. On the flop I would just be hoping that he's thinking about folding 99 and if he calls hope he folds it on the turn if I don't hit.

But when he raises the turn, the last thing I want to do is 3-bet. It's very unlikely he's not seeing a showdown, and then you will have to bet the river unimproved in a desperate attempt to get him to fold a marginal hand. And your Q/J outs are no good if he holds a K or better. Also you risk getting capped on the turn when you are a big dog. Whenever someone makes a play like this versus me I wind up hating them because an ace or 9 always shows up on the river.

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

if he thinks your flop c/r is BS, he will look you up with Ace hi, much more often than trying to re-bluff you imo./

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

when i do this i river an ace

bet raise 3-bet he caps

SPLIT POT

Re: Raised on turn after I pick up draw, I 3bet
 

I cant see many people folding to a turn 3bet